MGU 170 | Rejection And Regret

Rejection and regret are two emotions that are difficult to handle and even more difficult to forget. And sometimes, all it takes to wash away these feelings is to look within ourselves, release our full potential, and get rid of the mindset of resistance. Whitney Lauritsen reflects on the rejections she experienced and how she handled them, particularly with the schools she was not admitted to. Meanwhile, Jason Wrobel shares his somewhat feeling of regrets in not pursuing his past careers and what could have happened if he did so. Whitney also challenges Jason’s decision to stay away from social media, especially the growing TikTok community.

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Diving Deep Into Our Reactions To Rejection And Regret

A while back on one of our episodes, I talked about the uncomfortable physical sensation of shame or embarrassment. I’m not sure if I touched upon another reason that I physically feel that way sometimes. Jason, you’ll have to correct me if I already touched upon this, but I have been reflecting a lot about the feeling of rejection. Rejection is often associated with romance like somebody romantically rejecting you. It also can come up in a lot of little ways and also some big ways in our professional lives, in our friendship and things like our education. When I think about other forms of rejection, I’ll think about getting rejected from a college which I’ve experienced. I can’t remember, Jason. Were you ever rejected from a college that you wanted to go to, or were you one of the lucky ones that got into all the colleges that you applied to?

I got accepted to all the colleges I applied to.

Reflecting back, there was one school in particular that I got rejected from. I wanted to go to NYU in the Tisch Film Program because that’s what I studied. I was passionate about that for many years. I vaguely remember the feeling of being rejected. I have this memory of going out to the mailbox and getting the rejection letter. Funny enough, I documented it on video. I had been into making videos for a good chunk of my life. In high school, I started doing a lot of documenting. This is pre-iPhones. I would bring that camcorder to school and document all sorts of things, and people thought it was strange. It’s funny to look back on that now because it’s commonplace to document life now because we have cameras in our pockets. They’re attached to our phones and it’s become socially acceptable.

When I was in high school, it wasn’t like that. I was weird because I would carry around my camera, which was expensive. I bought it myself. I saved up money from babysitting and was making a ton of videos. That’s where my interest in film production developed. That’s why I wanted to go to NYU because at the time and it still is, it was one of if not the best film school. There was this idea that if you went to NYU, you would have a higher chance of being successful, which later in life I learned was not the case. I ended up going to Emerson College, which also has a phenomenal film school and started going up in the ranks over time. I started to feel prouder about it.

I also found that going to that college didn’t make or break me. I would have been successful regardless. I also pivoted and decided not to work in the film industry anymore. I did continue to do video. I want to dig up that video and see if I did in fact document that rejection experience. I do remember being disappointed but it went away. That’s part of the point that I want to make here. It is interesting to hear from you, Jason, that you got accepted. Not only did I get rejected from NYU, but there was at least one other in that round of college applications. There were also another round of schools because I thought about transferring out of Emerson. It was my sophomore year of college.

I got determined to move to Los Angeles. I was eager to move here and start my film career. I thought, “I’m stuck in Boston. I’ll apply to other film schools in Los Angeles.” I also applied to UCLA, USC and even the University of Santa Barbara. All three rejected me as a transfer student, which I haven’t thought about that much. It wasn’t that big of a deal because shortly after that, I enrolled myself in Emerson College’s Los Angeles Program. That’s become a cool benefit of that school. At the time, they had this temporary campus. It was part of another building and we went and stayed. Our “dormitories” were in this cool apartment complex that at the time was called The Oakwood. Now it’s called AVA or something. It’s well known that you see it used in the background of TV shows. I saw it on This Is Us, also in a ton of Netflix shows. This One Called Love used that as part of their set. It’s a well-known apartment complex. It was neat to be able to do that.

Over time, Emerson created their own building. They have this incredible campus in Los Angeles. A lot has changed and I eventually made it to LA but before that happened, I was rejected. Rejection is interesting because there can be that physical discomfort, which is what I want to talk about. It’s worth mentioning that rejection can sometimes cause us to give up. Sometimes it causes us to feel motivated. Sometimes it doesn’t have much of a long-term effect like in the case of college. It didn’t matter that I didn’t go to NYU, UCLA, USC, all these well-known schools. I ended up going to a great school that became more well-known over time. Ultimately, I don’t think it mattered.

An important element of rejection is that it can feel it matters in the moment. It can feel uncomfortable and shattering. With romantic relationships, this is a common experience, especially for people that are online dating. Rejection can happen every single day romantically. That’s part of the reason I don’t like online dating because rejection for me is uncomfortable. Even though logically, I know all of these things that I shared about it still feels uncomfortable. That’s part of the reason that I want to explore it.

I’m curious, what is the emotional component of the feeling of rejection for you? In other words, what is it triggering? Is it triggering a feeling of not enoughness or deficiency? Does it spring you into the comparison trap? I’m curious for you when you feel this physical sensation? Two questions because I want to talk about my perspectives. What are the characteristics and the physical feelings in your body? Was it heat, warmth? Do you get sick to your stomach? The original question is, what do you think are the emotional building blocks under this rejection for you? What is it triggering for you?

I described the physical sensations of shame and embarrassment a bit in that other episode. I’m trying to think if there’s a difference between those sensations I described before. I feel like shame, embarrassment and rejection are similar sensations, for me at least. It’s hard to share, Jason, now that you gave those examples. Am I saying this because you shared that? I feel a lot of discomfort like a panicky sensation. I feel a lot of shame within rejection. That’s where my brain goes. It’s like, “You got rejected. You must’ve done something wrong.” There’s also, in this panic process for me, a desire to fix things quickly. I want to recover from it. I either want to get over it as quickly as possible, or I want to change something to make it better, to improve it, and to affect the outcome. There are certain situations that you can’t change. In most cases, when you apply to a college and you get rejected, you can’t change their minds. Maybe you can, I don’t know.

It could be different these days, but in terms of romantic interests, that’s a bit different. You might not be able to change somebody’s mind, but a lot of people believe that they can change somebody or change the outcome of something, do it over again, get another chance. Sometimes that feels empowering. Sometimes I feel like that makes things worse, this idea that like, “If I can do something differently, I can change it. I can control it.” My brain goes through all of these different experiences and these thought processes in order to cope. Ultimately, that’s my coping mechanism. I feel that physical sensation of heat, tingling and wanting to crawl out of my skin. My brain goes to work. It’s like, “How can I fix this? How can I make this better?”

MGU 170 | Rejection And Regret

Rejection And Regret: Many people believe that they can change somebody or the outcome of something, do it over again, and get another chance. That can be either really empowering or could make things worse.

 

The point that you raised about trying to change people is interesting. Why do we do that? Why do we try and convince someone who may or may not have their mind made up? What does that even mean? We’re changing how we feel and we’re changing our thoughts. That phrase, “I’ve got my mind made up.” Is this your position forever? I do think though, in the context of relationship, whether that’s romantic, being rejected from an audition or a job, or college entrance. I reflect on my behavior in situations in the past where I’ve done my best to win someone back or try and convince a casting agent. It’s interesting why we feel the need to try and change someone’s mind. I don’t know that I have an answer. I’m exploring it in real time as we do here when we bring things up.

I don’t know that I have an answer for myself yet. Maybe it’s because I think if I get that thing and I try to change someone’s mind and I hold onto it, that will engender a deeper feeling of control for me, and therefore safety, which you and I have talked about. That’s something for you too, the need to control to feel safe. Maybe that’s part of it. If find a way to convince this person or see my perspective, then I will maintain some sense of control over the outcome of life. Maybe it’s a control thing. How does that hit you? When you’re trying to change someone’s mind, what do you think it is for you? That might be a broad question to a nuanced thing.

I can relate to this desire to control. That word safety is key too because it is a feeling of insecurity and almost feeling threatened like, “What does this say about me that I was rejected in college?” With the college experience that it was like, “I must not be good enough.” That actual process of being rejected in high school is crucial to our personal development. We are still mentally developing. Our brains are still growing and being shaped. We’re impressionable. We’re emotional with our hormones raging too. The amount of rejection that we go through at that period of our life is concerning when you think about it. Given that our brains are sensitive at that point, I’m amazed that we’re even put through that process of applying to college.

First of all, not just rejection. We also don’t even know that much about ourselves at that age, and yet we have to determine what we’re going to study in school. The whole course of our lives feels like it’s being determined based on what school we go to. That’s so much of the mentality that our school system has placed on us, which is so much pressure. Many people end up going to college because they feel like they have to, which is an expensive process, depending on what school you go to and if you’re getting a scholarship or something. For most of us, it’s expensive. Student loans are a huge burden for much of your life or your family member’s life, whoever is paying for it.

The fact that you go through this process and you’re spending money even just applying, you don’t know if you even want what you think you want, then you’re being rejected. It’s nuts the more that I think that about it, and the fact that that has that ripple effect. Going back to my experience, I imagine that because my brain often goes to this place of not feeling good enough, that being rejected from multiple colleges might have had this long-term impact on me thinking that I wasn’t good enough like, “My grades aren’t good enough.” This mentality of like, “Maybe I should have done X, Y, Z, and this would have been different.”

I have this one coaching client. One of this client’s challenges is that their brain goes to this place of, “You should have done better. You wouldn’t have been in this place.” Through the process of coaching this client, I’ve been reflecting on that for myself too, because I have never thought about it that way, Jason. I’m curious if you have this mentality at all. I bet a lot of people do. It’s not like, “I don’t feel good enough now, but I can change it.” That feels more empowering, but it could be the opposite of, “I’m not good enough. I’m never going to be good enough. I should have done all of these other things in order to be good enough. Because I didn’t do them, that’s why I’ll never be good enough.”

That’s a relatable thought stream for me. That shows up in my life in the sense of thinking about alternate realities or parallel timelines to get quantum for a second, whether or not you believe in alternate timelines or simultaneous dimensions in alternate realities. To a degree, I believe in it. Our sense of time and space is extremely limited. There are different levels of existence beyond this third dimensional, physical Earth realm. That’s a different episode altogether. It’s interesting that you bring up going to film school because there are times where I’ve thought to myself, “I wonder if I would have stuck with filmmaking and I would’ve stuck with acting,” because our paths are similar although they’re years apart, in the sense that I wanted to go to film school. I was a student filmmaker in high school. I applied to NYU, USC, and UCLA.

The one place I didn’t apply to that I wanted was the School of Visual Arts, which was also New York. It’s interesting that you bring all this up because you and I had similar tracks. I was about to go to NYU because I did get accepted to Tisch School of the Arts and the film program. At that time, this was the mid ‘90s. My tuition was going to be over $100,000. I would have been $100,000 in debt. At that time, I don’t know that I want to go that route. I ended up going to Columbia, which was still in that top five to top six film schools, art schools in the country. I didn’t go to NYU either but for me, it was different reasons, it was financial reasons.

My point is I ruminate a little too much sometimes on, “What if I hadn’t given up my path of being a filmmaker and being an actor?” The acting thing is interesting. I’ve had two acting gigs, and they came out of nowhere. I’ve had people say to me, “What if you focused on it?” I never have, to be honest. I’ve booked commercials over the years. I’ve been in one movie. I’ve done promo spots. I had my TV series. I just never said I’m going to hunker down and focus on acting as a career. It’s been the side hustle. I don’t know if regret is too strong of a word. I don’t know if it’s an appropriate word to use in this context but it sits sometimes.

I’m like, “I wonder if I had stuck with it. I wonder if I hadn’t veered away from that course, or I wonder if I had built up the experience, the tools, and honed my talent in a more focused, intentional and directed way?” I’ve taken acting classes over the years. I’ve done improv classes. I’ve worked with acting coaches and incredible voice coaches, but I don’t know. I wonder if I were to focus on my career as a performer, I wonder what would happen. Maybe it’s fear that’s held me back all these years. It’s like, “Look at all my other friends that are starving artists that don’t know what they’re doing.” That’s a long answer to your question. It’s somewhere in the realm of wondering. It’s close to regret but it’s not exactly regret.

What if I train myself to not care what others think…and what if I train myself to not care what I think? Click To Tweet

Regret is also part of this rejection conversation. I’m glad that you brought that up and I’m also glad that you brought up the performance side of it because I was thinking that about how I feel one of your, if not your main talent, is performing. You’re a great speaker. You’re great on camera. You did that video for American Flatbread? Is that the company?

Yes, I did a whole campaign with them.

People enjoy you. A great majority of our audience is here because of you. They’ll comment these things about how much they adore you. You draw people in and you’re charismatic. It comes naturally to you. That’s a huge differentiation. It makes sense if you look at your career path. It was our second episode ever when you told your life story and what led you up to this. For the readers, if you haven’t gone that far back on our show, we encourage you. I have one as well, but if you’re here for Jason, you can read that episode. If you don’t know me at all, if you’re not familiar with me because you’re here for Jason, then maybe you want to read my episode as well to find out who the heck I am. Jason, if I recall, your career as a chef and as a content creator/influencer stemmed from your abilities to be on camera and your abilities to make people happy. Getting into the whole chef world does involve a lot of performance for you. When you brought me to your school that you went to for being a chef, it felt performancy. If I remember correctly, didn’t you have to get up in front of the class a lot and share recipes? Didn’t they have a whole camera setup? Am I remembering this correctly, Jason?

One hundred percent. I do have to give a lot of love and appreciation to the Living Light Culinary Institute, which was the culinary school I graduated from in 2005. Whitney and I went up for a trip in 2012 to Mendocino, which is where the culinary school is still is. They still do have a curriculum within the chefs training of being on a camera and learning how to present. At that time, YouTube was four months old. It wasn’t like, “Do this for YouTube.” At that time many years ago, it was the idea of wanting to get you comfortable to do food demos. I remember saying, “If you want to do food demos at your local natural grocer,” little did we know what this whole thing would explode and mutate into years later.

The cool thing with that school was they were like, “If you’ve never been on camera before, and you’ve never presented a recipe.” I remember people being terrified. For good reason, a lot of people get into the culinary arts that are introverts because they can focus on the recipe. They can be in the back of the house. They can be doing their thing in the kitchen. Living Light was forward-thinking in the sense that they wanted to put people in front of a camera to get them more comfortable, not only presenting to an audience, which was an entire classroom of culinary students, but getting people used to doing cues on camera and playing to multiple cameras. Your memory is correct in the sense that they went way beyond other culinary schools with that training.

It set me up for success because I started my YouTube channel a few short years later, then Facebook, Twitter, the whole giant behemoth that is social media where everyone’s on camera. I remember Trudy Green, who you know as well, who’s this incredible, legendary, music manager. She manages Jay Shetty. I remember several years ago, I was at a gathering with Trudy and she’s like, “Jason, you are the core. You’re the chef and you do all this acting. You’re an entertainer. No matter what you do at the core of your being, you’re an entertainer.” I remember hearing that from her and going, “She’s right. No matter what medium I want to be in or endeavor to be in, I want to entertain the shit out of people. That brings me a lot of joy.”

I remember after that conversation with her, that you did get more determined. That’s when you started looking into voiceover work. I’m curious, Jason, why you go through these phases of approaching it and then backing away and distancing yourself because it keeps coming back to you. These opportunities to perform come up over and over again, and you always say yes to them. You say yes because you love it. Unlike sometimes you say yes to chef work purely out of the financial benefits, correct me if I’m wrong. You say yes to entertainment opportunities, mostly out of passion with the added benefit of the finances.

I’m curious. Why don’t you pursue it more if you have much passion and natural ability and experience? You’ve already got your proverbial foot in the door. You’re in SAG. You have enough on your resume to “impress” people or show people that you’re not some amateur. You have connections and you have the know-how. There’s much there for you that a lot of people don’t have, if they have a desire to get into acting and various forms of performing. I’m curious why you are not going after it more if you want to expand upon that. Whatever happened with you doing voiceover work?

I started working with a voiceover coach and started cutting demos for it. I realized that it didn’t light me up per se. I was reading these commercials. I was auditioning and I started to go out on voiceover auditions through a casting director I knew. It didn’t light me up and spark that thing in me. There something about being on a stage or being in front of a camera that lights me up and sparked something in me in a different way that being on a microphone didn’t. Maybe it was the context of like, “Here I am on an audition for Glad ClingWrap.” I would try and get into these things and I would do an okay job, but I wasn’t that passionate about reading these commercials.

I dip my toe in. It doesn’t mean I won’t ever pursue it again. I went to twenty different coaching sessions and had 3, 4 or 5 auditions. I was like, “This is okay.” When you start to get into something and you start to do it, there’s a natural passion that starts to develop like, “There’s something in this that I feel is activating or igniting something in me.” It’s an undeniable thing. I feel once I dip my toe into a certain point and I don’t start to feel a spark, I don’t know that I want to spend more time, money and focus on this thing if I’m not feeling lit up by it. In terms of pursuing a full-time career as a performer, there’s a part of me that doesn’t believe in myself. I’m being real. For some reason with performing, I get way too deep in the comparison trap, in the sense that I look at friends of ours like Ellie, Ryan or Candice, people that have been in the industry for a long time. I look at their resume and what they’ve done on TV and movies.

I’m like, “Do I want to try and climb that mountain? That’s a huge and scary mountain. I don’t know that I want to even jump into that.” This is an interesting timing for this conversation because I’m trying to get clear about what it is. I want to be focusing on moving forward, Whitney. I feel increasingly disillusioned with the vegan community. I feel increasingly disillusioned with the wellness community. I want to get clear about where I want to take my entertainment career because I’m starting to feel a lack of satisfaction with what I’ve been doing over the years. I’ve talked about this in many previous episodes, but I guess my answer to you is I don’t believe in myself enough as an entertainer.

MGU 170 | Rejection And Regret

Rejection And Regret: Posting on social media allows you to create your own content and let the people decide if they want to support you or not.

 

First of all, I’m grateful for your transparency and your honesty with this because it’s relatable. Not believing in ourselves is a common experience. It does tie into this whole conversation around rejection because sometimes we don’t believe in ourselves because of rejection. I was reflecting on this. Part of the inspiration that I had for this conversation was a couple of email experiences I had. One, I can’t remember if we talked about it on the podcast or not. We touched upon it briefly. I’ll summarize quickly that we had invited this one guest on our show. This person said yes initially but didn’t book a time to record with us. I followed up a few months later and their response had changed.

It went from being a yes to a no. I don’t know what happened because part of me was like, “That’s interesting. I would think it would go from a no to a yes. Not from a yes to a no because we’ve made a lot of improvements and grown a lot as the show. Our value is constantly increasing over time because of the work we’re putting into this. It caught me a bit off guard. I have no idea what this person is going through in their life. What made that email challenging was that the way that they worded the no. This is what they said, not exactly, but they said something along the lines of, “I’m being more selective about the shows that I’m on.” It did feel like a rejection, which I interpreted as, “Your show isn’t good enough for me.” It wasn’t even about numbers. This person doesn’t know how many listeners we have. There was something that no longer resonated with them. From an outside perspective it’s like, “Next, move on. It’s just another form of rejection.” It does sting, even if you logically know to move on from it.

This person took it to another level of asking more about our qualifications. It was this whole email filled with what I perceived as rejection and ultimately perceiving myself as not good enough. Some people could have read that email and thought like, “Next. You’re telling us no and that’s fine.” Someone like me reads that email and goes a level deeper and thinks like everything that this person is saying is indicating that I’m not good enough. Similar to you, Jason, it’s tying into doubting myself, doubting my abilities. We get these reflections from other people about who we are. We can internalize them and interpret them as evidence that we’re not good enough. I can see how that could happen in the entertainment world. Were there any experiences for you, Jason?

I don’t know that there’s any specific incidents per se. One stands out, but it’s not something I reflect on in the sense of that was the thing that made me not believe in myself. One thing came to mind when you asked that question. When I was living in Chicago going to Columbia, I was acting and doing theater. I was auditioning and I got an audition through one of my improv teachers at Columbia to audition for the cast of Second City. I remember auditioning for Second City and getting rejected. They’re like, “You’re not.” For me, Second City was the thing. Thinking about all of the Saturday Night Live stars and all of the incredible comedians who had come through Second City. It’s the original, legendary, improv school in that style of acting.

There are so many that have come since Groundlings and UCB, but Second City is the OG. You can Google it and see how many incredible performers and actors, and people have come through there. That was the first time. I remember I was 21, 22. Here I am with his head full of steam. I’m like, “I’m the shit.” I had been doing improv around Chicago and doing well. When I auditioned for Second City and got rejected, I was like, “Fuck.” It was my first big swing in my acting career like, “Second City is this big deal.” It didn’t happen. It crushed me because I went in there feeling good and confident about it. When I say, “crushed me,” it wasn’t the thing that was like, “I’m never going to act again.” That’s the first time I remember being a young performer, 21 or 22 and having my ass kicked. I started to talk myself out of it, Whitney, because I met all kinds of performers at different levels.

People were like, “It’s a hard road if you want to go this route of being an improv actor and theater performer.” I remember feeling dissuaded by acting coaches. I had this one acting coach and I’ve talked about her in a previous episode early on in our show. Her name was Nancy Schreiber. I was working with her in Chicago and we were discussing careers. I remember one time she mentioned something. She’s like, “We all thought we were going to be famous.” It sounds like there’s a lot of regret and animosity. I started to pick up on some people that were either on one end of the spectrum of being naive and excited and young like I was, and then people who had been acting for 20, 30 years or more. They’re being a bit like, “Are you sure you want to do this as your career because it sucks?” I listened to other people not purposely dissuading me because you’re a bad actor or you’re not a good entertainer.

I never had a Gary Oldman experience. Gary Oldman is one of my favorite actors of all time. If you look into his genesis as an actor, and he’s one of the people I admire the most with his abilities and his career arc. In school, one of his acting teachers was like, “You should give up. You should stop and not do acting.” You look at what Gary Oldman has done and what he continues to do. Thank God he didn’t listen to that person. I never had someone look at me and go, “You’re a shitty actor. You’re a shitty performer. You ought not do this.” I started to look at how many people were disillusioned. Their spirits were broken and they’re like, “I don’t know if you want to do this.” People who had been in the industry for a long time seemed beaten down and broken by it. I was like, “I don’t know if I want to do this.” I listened to other people and observed their career paths, and they didn’t seem all that happy.

I’ve talked a few times on the show how I’ve had that experience with filmmaking too, so I can completely relate to it. It’s interesting though, the difference being that I don’t have a massive desire to go back into the film industry. As I’ve said in at least one of the one other episode, I feel close enough to the film industry because we live in Los Angeles, and because we know a number of people that work in film that I can have my second tanned experiences. I can hear about the experiences and get the scoop on things. If it wasn’t COVID, I could go to set with some of these people and get enough of that experience to feel fulfilled. A lot of the draw to me was not just the process of making videos, which I do on most days through TikTok and sometimes YouTube, Instagram. I can make those videos any time. It’s fulfilling.

If I want to have that experience of working in the industry, I can go do that through people I know. It’s different from you because I don’t know if that would quite be as fulfilling. For you, there’s not many outlets. It also gives me another question, if the industry itself makes you cautious, I wonder why you don’t do more performing outside of being Jason Wrobel on Instagram. I’m curious why you don’t do more skits or even why you don’t do more singing? I was thinking as I was looking over the footage from our launch party for the show, which was in December 2019. You did this wonderful singing performance. You’ve talked many times about wanting to do more music, and you said that you were going to do more videos, and you might even record an album and release it.

You’ve talked a lot about these things that you could do on your own that wouldn’t involve this challenge of the industry, and having to deal with rejections through auditions or being on set and those things that can be unpleasant. We are fortunate to have this time with YouTube, Spotify, TikTok, and Instagram and all of these avenues that you could do it all on your own and let the world decide if they want to support you or not. I’m surprised that you haven’t embraced TikTok, for example. For me, that is the ultimate place to create your own career as a performer. What is your resistance? What stops you from making all of this content?

MGU 170 | Rejection And Regret

Rejection And Regret: Staying in a place of unknown, which some people feel lower vibration energies, does not serve you in any way.

 

There’s a part of social media that I don’t want people’s validation anymore the way I used to, in the sense of releasing music or releasing skits or all that. It’s the internal dialogue of, “Am I doing this because there’s something in my heart that I want to create and release into the world no matter what people think? Am I doing this because it’ll make people laugh?” You and I joke all the time that I have this catalog of songs about our animals. We always laugh at these inside jokes because I’ve created many songs about the animals. Are you going to do an album of animal songs? I think about that sometimes like, wouldn’t that be fun? The reason I’m not creating is because I want to be clear about why I’m creating. Am I creating because I feel that I have something that I need to express, like it’s a burning desire that needs to be expressed in the world? Is it more that, “This will get a laugh? This will get people’s attention. This will make people validate me. This will get a reaction out of people.”

That’s about shifting it. You’re aware of that. Coming back to my question, if you love performing, why wouldn’t you perform and not be dependent on other people’s reactions?

Because of that part of my desire to perform and that gravitational pull towards being a performer entertainer since I was a child. I’ve talked about this in previous episodes, that if everyone’s laughing, entertained and happy, and I’m the source of that, I’m bringing that energy, then I’ll never be rejected and abandoned. People will love me because I’m the brightest light in the room. Part of my desire in my entire life is to be the brightest light in the room. I walk into a party. I am on stage. It’s like, “I’m about to blow your minds.” I know that if I do, I’ll get a lot of love. I don’t want to operate that way anymore. I don’t want to perform. Where I’m at now is I need to relandscape and figure out a more sustainable approach to being an entertainer and a performer because operating out of that mode that I’ve been in most of my life, which is I make you laugh, I make you smile, I make you happy. Jason doesn’t get rejected or abandoned or shunned at. I don’t want to do things for that reason anymore. I don’t want to do things out of this needy place of I need to be the one making you laugh and lighting your life up because I’m secretly wanting something from you in exchange. That doesn’t feel good to me anymore. I want to perform and I want to entertain, but I don’t want to do it from that place anymore.

You’re conscious of that, but there seems to me another level to this. It almost seems to me that it’s more the opposite. It feels like you’re saying that you recognize that you felt motivated to get people’s attention because getting people’s attention makes you feel like you’re not being rejected. Attention protects you from rejection. Maybe it’s not what you think it is, because it almost sounds to me like you’re trying to detach from your ego like, “My ego is wrapped up in getting people’s attention.” I wonder though, if that’s a cover for you for not acknowledging your fear of rejection in a way. You said that you do feel rejection, so you have coped with not being rejected by being a performer, but you’re saying you don’t want to be a performer. Maybe you don’t want to be a performer because you are still afraid of being rejected.

It’s not that I don’t want to be a performer. It’s that I don’t want to be a performer that is needy for shit from people. It’s like I’m going to produce this piece of content or do this performance or go on tour or do this skit because I’m trying to elicit something from you, energy, love, comments. When I put out content and people respond in a certain way or react in a certain way, that’s favorable. I don’t like what I’ve created. There is no amount of praise and positive comments. There’s no amount of like, “You did such a great job. That was great.” If I don’t feel it’s great, it doesn’t matter because I don’t feel it’s great. The praise from people I’ve noticed doesn’t penetrate it.

It’s not nourishment like it used to be for me. Another thing that’s at play here is I’m way too hard on myself. I’ve always been too hard on myself because I set a standard for myself that is often unattainable in terms of my creative life. This has hindered my creative expression in many ways. I have to take responsibility for this. I’m hard on myself because in my mind’s eye and in my heart, I have this vision of what something ought to be. When I record music or I’ve done whatever, the end product is I’ll end up being like, “This isn’t what I wanted it to be.” The frustration wrapped up in this is that the standard I have in my mind of what I feel is satisfying or fulfilling is different than other people. If people are heaping praise on me like, “You did great. This was amazing. Holy shit,” it’s because I’m still too hard on myself.

Not to say that this truly is simple, but a simple way to reflect on this is that you are simply in the habit of thinking that way. I have been studying habits a lot. That’s something I keep getting drawn to over and over again. In my Beyond Measure group, we are spending the month of February focusing on this book called Atomic Habits. I’m excited about that. As I mentioned in an episode, I’ve been reading Jen Sincero’s new book about habits. I’m deep in this world. One of the things that keeps coming up, which I know you know, but if we go deep on this situation that you’re expressing, it sounds to me like you’re in the habit of not feeling good enough and being disappointed with yourself. I surely am too. This is part of why I was drawn to discussing this because I like acknowledging this.

I’ve been reflecting a lot on my own mental habits and they are hard to break. I’m curious, what if you became dedicated to this, dedicated to simply accepting yourself, making it a conscious effort? For example, I do this with my body. I have been feeling frustrated with my body. I don’t want to say disappointed because I’m trying to get out of the habit, but that’s in essence how I had been feeling, but I’m moving away from that because it’s not serving me to feel that way about my body. I was triggered because I noticed by stepping on a scale that I had gained weight, as many people have during COVID. I’m on a big mission to not define myself based on my weight.

I’ve mentioned Beyond Measure a few times on the show. That was one of the big inspirations like, who am I beyond my measurements? I’m much more than that. It’s like what you’re talking about, Jason. You are much more than the praise you get through likes and comments. We define ourselves so much through measurements that it doesn’t serve us. We need to take that personal responsibility. In my case, I’m trying to look in the mirror and focus on what I like about my body and then also train myself daily to embrace the parts that I haven’t liked. My hope is if I can get into the habit of loving my body, no matter how much I weigh, no matter what I look that day or that month, or whatever span of time, if my daily practice is centered around loving it, no matter what, maybe I can train myself and create this positive habit.

I’m curious if you could do the same thing. What if you’ve gotten into a daily practice, because this is going to be how you would get more effects of it, not allowing yourself to say or even think those things, catching yourself when you do? One more example for you, speaking of TikTok. I’m in a TikTok program where I am making a video on average every single day. This is a big increase for me because I was not feeling great about my own content on TikTok for a while. I allowed myself to get into analysis paralysis and in the perfection cycle of, “I don’t know what to create so I’m not going to create anything. I’m going to keep waiting. This isn’t the perfect idea so I’m going to delay it.” I noticed that. I didn’t feel like that was serving me.

We define ourselves so much through measurements that it doesn't serve us. Click To Tweet

I joined a program that gave me some guidelines and in essence, requires me to make a lot of content. Through that process, I’m learning to not be attached to anything because I have a minimum number of videos that I have to create on TikTok. I have to create them and not worry about the outcome, not worry about how many views they get, how many likes and shares, and all of these other metrics. I’m just in the process of creating. Sometimes I create something that I feel proud of, and sometimes I create something and I’m like, “That wasn’t good.” Sometimes it’s therapeutic to keep doing it anyways because then we get into the habit. I’ve noticed, after a few days of doing this for TikTok, my confidence is going up.

I am less attached to whatever those metrics are. It’s the same thing that’s happening with my body. Every day I look at myself and go, “I love myself. I love my body. I’m okay the way that I am. I’m not just okay, I am a beautiful person and I have a beautiful body that’s serving me.” All of these positive things. I know you as Jason Wrobel, you know how to do these things, but have you committed to them? That’s my big question, are you willing to commit to them as we’re in the beginning of 2021? What if you were ultra-committed to this because you identified that this is a huge challenge for you?

It depends on the methodologies. For me, I would want to experiment with things that I haven’t yet tried in the sense of my feelings of not feeling good enough. There’s been a lot of therapy dedicated to it. There’s been a lot of plant medicine experiences, and there’s also been affirmations of looking in the mirror and positive self-talk.

I’m talking about specifically your performances, Jason. I’m talking about you making content because that’s what you were saying. My question to you originally was, why aren’t you performing? The first phase of that is, “I don’t want to go through the experience of auditioning and being in this industry.” If we put that aside, there’s still that option of you creating your own content and putting that out there, to which you said that you don’t want to be dependent on other people’s praise, and you’re also noticing that you never feel satisfied. Have you tried? I know there’s traditional therapy that you’ve gone through, and affirmations, I know you’ve done that. Have you tried creating content frequently no matter what you think of it and no matter how people are reacting to it? I’m not talking about general content, I’m talking about you singing and you doing skits, however you want to perform, whether it’s for TikTok or not, or whatever else.

I’m bringing up TikTok not only because I’m in this program, but it’s the best platform that we have for performances, whether it’s music, acting, education, all these different avenues. I’ve been encouraging you to do it and you keep resisting it. That’s fine if you don’t the platform, but you could choose any platform to do this on. I don’t see you doing it consistently. I’m asking, would you be open to creating consistent performance content and working through these challenges that you’re having emotionally?

It would be beneficial. There would be a certain process with producing things and not fucking caring about it. When I say “not fucking caring,” I mean I’m going to release this thing and what if I train myself to not care what people think, and what if I train myself to not care what I think? There was this interesting interview several years ago with John Lennon. The interviewer was asking John Lennon about his music. I’m paraphrasing because I don’t know if I can find this interview. I’m sure it’s on the internet somewhere. John Lennon made a comment about the fact that he didn’t even like his own voice. He had this music, this art coming through him and his desire to serve the art and put this stuff in the world was more important than his opinion about his own voice.

He even said it. He’s like, “I don’t like the sound of my own voice. I’ll listen back to recordings sometimes.” You think about some of the greatest Beatles songs and some of the greatest solo songs that John Lennon recorded. In my opinion, his voice perfectly fit most of the music he wrote, but his opinion of his voice is he didn’t like it, but he had something that had to come through him. I think about that from time to time and especially in this conversation of, what if it doesn’t matter whether or not I like my own voice? What if it doesn’t matter whether or not I even like what I put out? What if it’s a matter of me being messy and giving no fucks? Maybe that’s my mantra for the New Year is be messy and giving no fucks.

That’s why I keep encouraging you to go on TikTok because TikTok is about that. My next question for you, I don’t know if this is coming off strange. I clearly love TikTok. It’s not like I have this agenda to get everybody on TikTok but I’m committed to getting you on TikTok, and I’m willing to let go of that desire eventually. I’m still perplexed as to why with everything that you said and everything that I know that you are and I know that TikTok is. What is it that you’re resistant to on TikTok?

I don’t know that it’s TikTok necessarily as much as it is, and you know this about me, when another platform comes out, it’s eye-roll for me.

I would totally get that if it weren’t for my deep research on TikTok. I’ve been studying TikTok hardcore. I got on to TikTok in October 2019 simply out of curiosity. At that point, I would get what you’re saying about this eye roll. I begrudgingly got onto TikTok, but I quickly saw how different that platform is, and it has been nonstop examples. I’m not just saying this for you, Jason. I’m saying this for the readers too. There was an issue at the beginning of 2020 around privacy, but we found out in December 2020 that Instagram’s got major privacy challenges. Instagram is the social media darling, but we’ve got TikTok which has worked through some privacy things.

I’m not an expert on privacy. We would refer you to people like Paul Jarvis, who we had on the show for privacy concerns. I highly recommend reading his episode. Privacy aside, it’s gotten better on TikTok. It’s gotten worse on Instagram. I remember people being outraged with TikTok about privacy because the media was telling us all of that. Meanwhile, the app that many people have trusted, which is Instagram and also Facebook and many other platforms have been doing all sorts of shady things. Let’s take privacy out of the equation. I don’t even think that’s your concern, Jason, but this eye roll mentality that you have, I honestly think that you will have deep regrets for not being on TikTok as a performer. I believe that in 2021 TikTok is going to become the social media platform. I’m willing to be wrong about it, but I have strong instinct that’s backed up by a lot of research that I’ve done.

MGU 170 | Rejection And Regret

Rejection And Regret: If you are in the habit of creating, you may not even notice the places where you are creating.

 

You can’t use that as an excuse anymore, Jason. It’s not just another social media network. This is going to be one of, if not the main social media network soon. It’s already a major player. It’s taking some while for the influencer industry to pick up on it. Influencers are starting to go on there and brands are starting to become part of TikTok. I keep seeing brands that you know and love, Jason, including stores in Los Angeles like Cocobella. I saw Monty’s Burgers on there. Local businesses are getting on TikTok. You know that this is not just another social media platform anymore.

I don’t know how to respond to that.

You don’t know how to respond because I’m taking away all your excuses.

If I don’t have the motivation, I’m not going to do it. I don’t have the motivation.

Sometimes you have to create the motivation. If you were coaching somebody, you would say the exact same thing to them. I honestly think I’m catching you with a boatload of excuses, to be frank.

You’re catching me in a state of burnout where I don’t fucking care. That was also accurate.

I care about you, Jason. I also feel like sometimes burnout is an excuse. I believe in burnout and I get it. I’ve noticed this throughout the entire 2020, and it’s possible you’ve been burnt out the entire year. From a mental health standpoint, I have compassion from you. As your friend and your business partner and somebody who deeply believes in you, you can’t keep using these same excuses because they’re no longer valid. If you are passionate about something like you are about performing, it’s something that you come back to time and time again, everybody sees that within you, Jason. I’m sure the listeners do. You have a great voice on this show. You have a great singing voice when you perform. You are charismatic on camera.

That is why people stick around. That is why people have invested in you in many ways. They hire you. You had a TV show. Just like Trudy says, performing might be your calling in life. If you’re not willing to embrace the industry and go that avenue, then doing online content is the next best option for you. I feel like you could throw all the other social media networks aside and do TikTok. Here’s another question for you. Your third excuse for not doing TikTok is burnout, but what if the antidote to burnout was performing? What if you started performing and felt so alive that TikTok became a source of joy? I’m also saying this from somebody that I thought I was facing massive burnout and that’s why I wasn’t creating on TikTok. When I got into this program that I’m in and I have these rules about how much content I have to create, I’m now finding myself fueled. Sometimes I do feel burnout is a form of resistance or an excuse.

It’s possible. I don’t know. We’ll see.

This is a helpful thing to explore as we’re doing it in real time because you might be inspiring others. I’m bringing this up because you’ve talked a lot about this on the show. We’ve had people that specialized in a lot of things and have had expressed the way that they’re doing it. “I don’t know,” continues to be your answer. I’m curious, are you truly comfortable not knowing? Is that a genuine answer for you or is that you embracing a form of resistance? Why is it that your answer is, “I don’t know,” instead of “Let me try this and see how it goes?”

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It goes back to this idea of creating things and detaching myself from the outcome and also creating things that don’t have anything to do with what I’ve done before. I need to start focusing on things that I haven’t done before, because it feels like the one thing that I don’t want to do on TikTok or social media moving forward is rehash the same old shit that I’ve done for the last several years. There’s the conversation of like, “Put stuff out and figure it out as you go,” which I agree with. There’s also this idea of throwing things into the abyss and not knowing what I’m doing at all. The reality is I’m becoming more disillusioned by the day with everything that I’ve done before. I don’t want to get on TikTok and do remade versions of the same stuff. I don’t want to do recipes and wellness content.

What about you playing music? I’m not asking do recipes or that type of content. This is the other big thing that people have said about TikTok. You can go on there and no one will know that you’re on there except for strangers. You could go and create a whole new account with some gibberish name and appear to strangers, and nobody would know that you’re on there. Nobody from your Instagram, your newsletter, no one. We can keep it secret on the show if that makes it easier for you. Although I feel all of those people would be excited and supportive of you, but if it feels safer for you, that’s another huge benefit of that platform.

It can be secret and be an experiment. You can pretend that you’re performing to a crowd of people and an audience that never heard of you because they came to a musical mashup or one of those concerts that you go to where there’s a bunch of performers and you walk around, and you listen to different acts and you might discover somebody. That’s the environment of TikTok. No one’s saying that you need to do the same old, same old. What if you did the things that made your heart sing? That’s my big question.

The idea of doing it as an alter ego sounds interesting to me. I don’t know what that means, if that would mean me wearing a Darth Vader mask or something. I don’t know what the fuck it would be.

You don’t have to show your face. You can have a camera set up and all people see is your hands on the guitar. You could wear a mask and do a skit of some sort. You could show your animals. I’ve sent you hundreds, if not over 1,000 videos that would appeal to you. It’s that ongoing question, and this is why I haven’t dropped it yet because you haven’t given me a satisfactory answer as to why you haven’t tried it yet when this is the stuff that you enjoy doing.

Maybe I don’t have a satisfactory answer, I don’t know. I’m not trying to give you a satisfactory answer. I haven’t felt inspired to do it. That’s why I’ve been resisting it.

I also find it interesting the number of times that you’ve said, “I don’t know.” It’s almost like a tik. Your go-to phrase is, “I don’t know,” but you do know deep down. I’m not talking about TikTok anymore. Let’s put that aside.

All of social media though, if I look back on the things that I’ve posted, this is part of a bigger conversation about my increasing dissatisfaction with social media. It’s a complicated relationship. At the core of it, I don’t want to be beholden to do one more thing. Maybe if I start doing it and have fun with it, it’ll change my relationship to it, but the reality is I’m not having “fun” with any of it.

Why don’t you drop everything else and just pick one? That’s the other question. You don’t have to do it all.

Maybe because if I look at it, I don’t engage on Pinterest and Twitter. I barely engage on Facebook anymore. Maybe I could delete all of those entirely.

From a social media perspective, I wouldn’t encourage you to delete them. You certainly could and you can do what our friends like Paul and Corbett, they temporarily took down their accounts. You can archive all your posts and all of that.

MGU 170 | Rejection And Regret

Rejection And Regret: Get to a place of burnout to realize what you want to shed.

 

I’m not going to take the time to do all that. If I’m going to detonate, I’m going to go nuclear and go all the way.

You keep saying you’re going to detonate. What has stopped you?

Fear.

Fear of what?

That I would regret it and then I have to rebuild again.

That ties back into this regret conversation. This is part of the challenge from this conversation. It’s starting to become a bit clearer to me. You’re saying I don’t know a lot, and you’re sharing a lot of reasons not to do something. You’re allowing yourself and you’re staying in this place of the unknown, the fear, and the regret, all of those lower vibration energies. That’s not serving you, and people like myself, our readers and many people that adore you want to see you rise above. We’re all willing to see you experiment. You can also experiment without any of us knowing. For all I know, you might have already created a TikTok account with an alter ego, and you never have to tell me that. I want to see you rise above the unknown and the fear.

This all started off with me sharing about myself, because I’m not saying I’ve got it all figured out too. I’ve struggled with this a lot. I struggle with a lot of feelings of shame and rejection and not enoughness. This is an ongoing thing for me too. Sharing this with you and hearing you work through all of this is inspiring to me. I want to thank you. I imagine that our readers may thank you as well, because all of us can relate to this. When a loved one can see you in that place of being stuck, we’re all rooting for you to get unstuck and stop saying you don’t know. That would be my next suggestion encouragement for you. I lost count of how many times you said the words, “I don’t know,” but you do know deep down. Maybe it is that fear of regret or whatever else that is being reframed as “I don’t know.”

Maybe.

I like the word maybe. It’s a hell of a lot better than I don’t know.

It’s all part of an ongoing exploration in the sense that I have a love-hate relationship with social media. I don’t know that I want to continue to use it. Maybe I will, maybe I won’t. The idea of doing TikTok, it’s shrug fest for me. It hasn’t changed. I don’t care to be quite honest in this moment.

When I worked at Apple, they had this flexible rule, but part of our training was instead of saying, “I don’t know,” to a customer, if someone came up to us and asked, “How do you use Final Cut Pro?” If you’ve never used Final Cut Pro before, you could easily say, “I don’t know,” but that doesn’t support the customer. Instead, what we would say is, “Let’s find out.” We would go and we’d find somebody else in the store that did have the answer. What if you switched away from saying, “I don’t know,” to “let’s find out,” which is like “maybe,” but a little bit more empowering? That puts you in that place of being curious, experimenting and being empowered.

It’s like an improv too. You’ve experienced with improv. You talked about Second City. This is a natural thing for you. You’re great in making things up on the spot. You know that the biggest rule of improv is don’t negate. Maybe you’ve been negating yourself, your life and your potential so much. You’re in the habit of negating. That’s part of your tendency. You’re a rebel. We’ve talked about this in many episodes. You have that tendency of negating, but you’re negating yourself and that isn’t serving you. Put that on your affirmation, visualization, 2021 board, whatever you’re creating or not creating. What if your new mantra is “don’t negate?”

That’s a double negative.

What is it then? What’s the negate thing.?

I’m saying don’t negate is a double negative.

That’s the rule of improv. Couldn’t that be your mantra?

It could be one of them. I’m open to trying different things, but I also feel like I’m in this weird space of being open and also like, “Whatever.”

Whatever was like saying, “I don’t care, I don’t know.” It’s still the shrugging, the whatever, the I don’t know, I don’t care, all of that mentality. How is that helping you? How is that making you feel the way that you want to feel or do you want to feel that way?

Maybe I do. Maybe I’m disillusioned with all of it that I need to feel this way so that I can come out of it. If I don’t allow myself to feel this level of disillusionment, it’s going to be disingenuous for me to continue creating. I can’t keep creating from the same space I’ve been creating from because it doesn’t feel genuine and authentic. It doesn’t feel like me anymore. This is a stage of me being like, “I need to figure out what place I can come from within myself so that I can feel joyful again about it, and I can feel there is a sense of authenticity around it, because I haven’t felt that way for a long time. I’m hesitant to keep creating because I want to make sure it’s coming from a place inside of me that feels good, because the place that I’ve been creating from doesn’t feel good anymore.

Isn’t podcasting creating? Why do you do the show?

It’s of service to people.

There you go, you are creating and you are being a service. You’re already in the process of that.

I guess I am then.

This is why it’s a habit and an opportunity to shift some habits. You’re in the habit of thinking that way so you don’t even notice the places where you are creating. You do create a lot. It’s reframing creation. You have to step out of it, but you have to be committed to it if you’re going to step out of it. It could be putting up a post that I’ve seen people do where they said, “I’m taking the whole year off.” That’s it, that’s your rule. That means that you’re not taking on any more job opportunities like you have. You have to sit down and look at the pros and cons, and be truly committed to it. No one’s going to force you to do it one way or another, but it is about being integrity with your word. If you’re going to tell people that you’re not going on social media, you have to be committed to that, otherwise you’re out of integrity if you’ve come back. You have to realize that that might mean losing some job opportunities. Would that be okay with you? You do make money through social media.

I need to get clear on it. The reason that I haven’t taken a sabbatical is because I’m not fully clear about what I want. It’s a conflict. I want to sustain myself, make money, pay off debt, move out of California, and buy a house. That requires money, but at the same time, I want to have a healthier and more balanced relationship with social media, whether that means reduction, getting off certain platforms or getting off of it completely. I don’t have the answer yet for myself. I’m committed to finding the answer. I’m clear that I need for myself to be in full integrity with my decision. I haven’t made a decision yet on what the next phase of that relationship is because I don’t want to make a decision that is unclear or a rushed or irrational decision and then break integrity with myself. Until I get clear on what it is I want to do, I’m going to keep feeling through it and figure it out for myself.

How do you feel after this conversation?

It’s food for thought. I want to go take a long walk after this and process it and see how I feel. For me, it comes down to I want to create from a place that is more sustainable, authentic, and not based on the same motivations that I’ve created with in the past. I’m trying to get clear on what I want to create and make sure that it’s coming from a place that feels integral to me, and coming from a place where I’m not trying to get the same things that I’ve gotten from people in the past. It’s almost like I wish that I could create and not have anybody comment or like. I need to put things on Vimeo then, I don’t know.

You can’t turn off like on most platforms, but you certainly can turn off comments.

That’s one thing that I need to do moving forward, turn off comments. I don’t know. I’m exploring this. I feel like this conversation is giving me more to contemplate. The overall feeling that I have is I want to make sure that whatever I’m creating and initiating feels in alignment with me, that I’m making the decision for myself and not making the decision for anyone else. Coming from the place of making sure that in my heart, I’m doing it for the “right reasons,” and that’s for me to determine. It’s an ongoing exploration. I don’t know. We’ll we will see what happens, looking at my resistance and where I’m stuck. I need to re landscape my whole relationship to all of this shit. That is what it comes down to.

I want to know how. What are the next steps for you?

I need to figure out whether that’s getting off of certain platforms or taking a complete break or how long that break is going to be. I feel like I’m not clear on what that is yet. I don’t know how to get clearer other than feel into it. Part of my body on a somatic level is going to tell me what feels right and doesn’t feel right. Putting out more content and being in this furious pace of putting out content, the thought of it doesn’t bring me joy. To your point, maybe if I start doing it, the joy will come. I don’t know. Who the fuck knows? It’s almost like a human relationship with all of this where I’m like, “I don’t want to talk to you right now. Let me be alone and figure it out.” That’s how I feel with my creativity, social media and this whole thing. I need to be left alone.

You’re not being left alone if you’re still creating content. My follow-up to that question is, if you truly do want to be alone, what does that look like for you? Is that blocking things off your calendar? Is that not going on platforms? To hold you accountable for this, which is important to me because we’re doing this together, but I care about you a lot as my best friend. You’ve been in this place for a while. I’m here to be your accountability buddy. I’m sure our readers are and many people in your life are there to hold you accountable for this. How are you going to create a container of being left alone?

Having some fast, a detox and stepping away from it is in order. I do think that’s true.

Like what?

At least a month off.

Starting when?

Sometime in January or February 2021. We have a bunch of guests and a bunch of episodes that we’re committed to, but for my mental health, taking a break from creating period is going to be a smart thing to do.

What if you put a date on your calendar? Wellevatr, as our mutual account is different, unless you want to hire somebody to take over your tasks, which you’re welcome to do. In terms of your commitment level with our business, you will be required to do social media because I can’t do it all on my own. If you want to hire somebody else or find a volunteer, by all means. Aside from Wellevatr, could you put a date on your calendar to go off of all your other social media? Why don’t you pick a date now?

No, because if I’m going to do it, it’s going to be off of it completely. It’s going to be the whole thing. It’s not about picking and choosing. If I’m going to do it, I’m off of it completely.

The next step is to find someone who can fill your shoes.

I suppose so.

When is that going to go?

I don’t know.

This is what happens. You keep ending in the, “I don’t know.”

I don’t know. Maybe I’ll find an intern and have the intern do it. I’m sure there’s somebody out there that would want to work with me that might be good at graphic design or posting and have them do it. If I’m going to go off, I have to go off completely, 100%.

The sooner you can figure that out, the sooner you get closer to knowing the answer to this. I wonder if it feels daunting to you and that’s why you haven’t done it yet. If the next step is for you to pick a date to be off social media, which would require you to find somebody to fill your roles and your duties with social media.

After the guests that we have on the roster, I feel like February 2021 is a good time to do it.

You can do it whenever you want, as long as there’s somebody to support me, which is your role. If Wellevatr is part of the social media equation for you, there’s always going to be new guests. We’re not going to stop having guests on the show. You’re going to have to pick a date and have someone take over for you for a while. I’m giving you permission to do that. Maybe it’s one of our readers, maybe someone on the show wants to support you and me with getting this done. In which case, we would love you to reach out to us. The reason that I’m encouraging you to create these next steps, Jason, is I believe that that’s what takes you from a place of resistance and unknown and doing something that you want to do. Sometimes it can become daunting and we can’t sit in that place of, “I don’t know,” but you do know because you shared that. It’s a matter of being committed and choosing what next step you’re going to going to take.

I need to figure it out and put a post out and see if anybody’s willing to take over, and then give them the duties and walk away.

That would be great. That will open up this whole new level of relief for you. This could extend well and beyond a lot of the initial inspiration for this conversation. Sometimes, as you were saying, you need to get to this place of burnout in order to realize what you want to shed, what layers you’re willing to get rid of and how you are going to make that happen. Do you feel better recognizing any of this that we’ve explored?

It’s good that I put a timeline on it for sure. The idea of me stepping away completely does feel good, rather than piecemealing it or worrying about FOMO or what might I miss out on. From a mental health perspective, I need to step away completely from all of it for a while. It’s putting the steps and the components in place to be able to do that. It feels like we’re getting to the end of this episode.

Dear reader, if you’ve been uncomfortable and want to dig into anything, you can go to our website which is Wellevatr.com. You can follow us on social media, although I may not be the one doing it. It may be an intern or an assistant. We do have a great Instagram account. We’re on all the social media platforms. You can check in on us there. If you want to shoot us a direct email, if this episode resonated or sparked something within you, you can connect with us at [email protected]. I’m going to go take the dog for a walk and marinate on all the things we’ve discussed, Whitney. It was good. It was stimulating.

I’m glad to hear that. I hope it was stimulating for the readers as well. It certainly gave me a lot of food for thought and went in directions I never anticipated, which is how all of our episodes go. Mission accomplished!

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