The Holidays are here. That means we are officially in the season of gift-giving. But given our current COVID-19 situation where many people are struggling financially, how can we, as entrepreneurs, walk that fine line of marketing while keeping in mind what we are facing today? In this episode, Jason Wrobel and Whitney Lauritsen tackle this question as they examine the ethics of marketing tactics. Are we encouraging people to buy out of a place of scarcity? In what ways does marketing make us overextend ourselves? What does it say about capitalism? They answer these and more as they share with us some of their own experiences and what they have observed these days and the previous Black Friday sale.
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Examining The Ethics Of Marketing Tactics: On Scarcity, Capitalism, And The Want For More
Jason, I want to do something different because I don’t think that I can wait until the end of the episode to do my brand shout-out. It is mainly because I want to tell you about it but I’ve also thought it’s awesome to tell the readers as well. I was a little bit blown away by something I received in the mail. If you have read our episodes before, we typically do brand shout-outs, product shout-outs, services, anything that we’ve tried and enjoyed towards the end of most of our episodes. Jason, I’m going to ask for you to save your brand shout-out for the end, which is keeping to a regular format but I hope you don’t mind that I want to talk about mine right off the bat as a fun way to start this episode.
You want to create a shout-out sandwich is what you want to do. This episode is called a shout-out sandwich. We’re going to flip the script. We’re going to rip and dip. We’re going to slip a nip like Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl.
Jason is also revealing to us that he’s in a goofy mood, which is not a common thing. I’m excited about that.
It’s the result of drugs. Let’s go. Let’s rock and roll with this episode.
What painkiller is causing you to be a little goofy?
It’s one of the advantages of being in post-surgical recovery is you get a lot of good drugs.
This episode has nothing to do with this product. It’s simply that I feel a little bit amazed at something I received in the mail, and I cannot wait a whole hour to share it with you, Jason, and to the readers too. I’m impressed and maybe this will excite you as much as it excites me. We’ll then get into our topic, which I could find a tie in for this. It wasn’t exactly related, but we can get there. Here’s the story of how this came to be. When I did my road trip, I received a wonderful box of products from Vegan Essentials. Vegan Essentials is almost exactly what it sounds like. It is a website full of vegan essentials. In other words, lots of essential foods, a few body care, and home products. They have some animal products for your companions.
It’s a wonderful store run by incredible people that I’ve known for many years. I think Jason has known them. We encourage you to keep reading and subscribe to the show because Vegan Essentials is participating in a big giveaway we’re doing to celebrate our one-year anniversary. I hope you’re reading this episode before we do that giveaway or during the giveaway so that you can get a chance of winning some Vegan Essentials products.
They sent me this wonderful box full of things for my road trip but one of the things that they sent me was a special request because I had run out of chapstick and I’m obsessed with chapstick. I love keeping my lips moist. I hate getting dry lips. It drives me nuts. I had an experience with that because I had a big bout of reactions based on food sensitivity. I’ve talked about this in an episode, I have food sensitivities. Sometimes they’re confusing. I don’t know what causes them. I’m fairly certain that it was caused by gluten though because I had a few different pieces of bread, which always feels like a huge splurge to me. Every once in a while, I can outdo myself or trick my body, “I’m not eating gluten. Look the other way,” but that didn’t work this time.
For me, I will eat certain foods and sometimes it’s within twenty minutes or it takes 24 to 48 hours. I will get some crazy reactions to the food. In this case, it caused me to sneeze and need to blow my nose for an entire day. As a result of that, my upper lip got dry and chapped. I was applying layers of chapstick and feeling appreciative that I had some, which is not always the case. I had run out of chapstick while I was on the East Coast and I was frustrated. I get to a panic state when I don’t have chapstick. I need to have chapstick around and accessible in all of my bags. I need to have it on my nightstand. I need to have chapstick within reach.
The word need is perhaps not the best word. I like to have it around. I don’t like that uncomfortable feeling of dry lips and not being able to moisturize them. I also try to stay on top of keeping my lips moisturized by applying chapstick regularly. It’s part of my daily well-being routine, which is to apply chapstick to prevent dry lips. I asked Vegan Essentials if they would randomly select one of their chapsticks and send it to me and they did. They sent me one chapstick from this company called Ladybug Jane that I’d never tried before. They are vegan but they’re also organic and cruelty-free. For those of you who aren’t vegan or perhaps are newer vegans and didn’t realize this, the great majority of chapsticks contained beeswax to add another layer of complexity.
It’s hard sometimes to find a good vegan chapstick. I’ve tried a lot of them over the years but if you go to the store, depending on the store if it’s not a fully vegan store, which is most stores are not fully vegan, you have to go through 90% of chapsticks to maybe find one option and they tend to be a little lame. This is where my passion for chapstick comes in not only do I want to find vegan chapstick and ideally an organic one that’s made with high-quality ingredients, but the most amazing chapstick lines have different flavors. Jason, this is why I can’t wait to share this brand shout-out. Before we started this episode, I picked up a box from my PO Box. I didn’t know what was inside it. I opened it up and Ladybug Jane sent me every single one of their flavors of chapstick. They sent me eighteen chapsticks.
The reason why is because I posted about how much I loved their chapstick that Vegan Essentials sent me, which was, Jason, you’ll be happy to hear an Orange Creamsicle flavor like your cat Julia, she likes to call her orange creamsicle. That was the flavor of chapstick they sent and I loved it. I misplaced it in my car for weeks. I finally found it. Previous to finding it, I posted on Instagram that I love the chapstick so much and I lost it and Ladybug Jane said, “Don’t worry, we’ll send you a replacement.” They didn’t send me 1, 2, or 3, which is what I expected. I don’t know if they’re all different but I think they are.
I picked one out to try. This one is a Caramel Popcorn flavor. It is incredible. It tastes sweet. It tastes such a treat. I am blown away by it. It is made with stevia to another perk, no sugar. They use avocado oil, cocoa butter, sunflower oil, evening primrose oil, and aloe leaf extract. This is incredible, but the other flavors I wish I could open all of them up and try them because the other flavors are insane. They have a watermelon, vanilla cupcake, chocolate, sugar cookie, berries, lavender, and mango.
FYI, I’m on their website as you’re telling me about them and I have met the owner. I’ve met Jane herself years ago.
How and where?We are marketed and convinced through marketing that we're not enough. Click To Tweet
It was a long time ago and it was through the general Westside Venice vegan community. I haven’t seen her in years. As I was scrolling through, I was like, “This name sounds familiar,” and then I saw a picture of Jane May Graves the Founder of the company and I’m like, “I know her. I met her years ago.” She’s sweet and kind. I tried this lip balm, Whitney, but it was years ago. The branding was different. They didn’t have as many flavors. I have been exposed to this, but not a long time.
It’s impressive. They’re not sponsoring us by any means unless you count receiving eighteen chapsticks as sponsorship, which I’m fine with. I am elated because I lose chapstick frequently, as much as I try not to. I was sad when I lost or misplaced it because I did eventually find it. It was tucked away in the sheets of the mattress that I use to sleep in my car. I looked for it frantically. I was upset like this goes to show how important chapstick is to me. If anyone is reading and laughing because you can relate or laughing perhaps because you can’t relate, that’s fine. Chapstick is one of those things that most people use. If you’re looking for a vegan, organic, and fun brand to try, I highly recommend them.
I am particular about this. There have been only a few brands of chapsticks that I have fallen in love with and this has been added to the collection. Thanks to Ladybug Jane and Vegan Essentials for introducing me. Jason will be sharing his brand shout-out, which I hope he is as excited about. Before we get to that, since that’s going to be at the end of the episode, let’s dive into the topic and that is the energy of selling and marketing. The reason I wanted to bring this up is that we have been participating in a bundle sale. By the time you read this, the bundle sale will have ended. You may have heard us talking about it in our newsletter. If you’ve been reading the blogs, you’ve known some of the ads that we ran for that. We included our program, The Consistency Code in this bundle sale.
If you’re completely unfamiliar with bundle sales and you didn’t receive our newsletters or read our blogs, in essence, it’s when a group of people gets together to sell their products and services. The reason we did it this 2020 is because we were curious to see how it was going to go. It was a new one. We’ve participated in a bundle sale from another company for many years and we wanted to try something new plus it’s nice to offer a discount to people. Our course was $50, which is 75% off and you got all these bonuses. It felt like a way to be generous and give back to people that are looking for a deal.
What’s interesting about this is the energy behind selling, which I want to get into, and also be the conflict that I had internally about selling to people because it sometimes feels like it’s not fully aligned with my ethics to do things like this. I’ll explain why. Number one, I had a conversation with a friend of ours, Jason. I’m not going to name because he didn’t give me permission but I’ll give a little hint to you, Jason and readers. This is a guy and he has also been a guest of our show. That’s all I’ll say.
I know who it is. Say no more.
You know who it is out of all of the men that have been in our show. You instantly know who it is.
My intuition has been ferociously honed.
Have you read my mind is another question?
I just know. You and I also have been friends long enough where I feel like we pick up on each other’s cues almost psychically sometimes.
We were texting and catching up about life post-Thanksgiving and he was saying how it’s harder for him to stay in the selling mood. He was talking about how it’s such a grind to sell and how some people have an easy time selling. Sometimes it comes naturally to people. Sometimes people have that audience that is ready to buy. He was also telling me about his lack of enthusiasm for selling and it has led to a burnout feeling, which is not worth pushing through if he’s only going to achieve lackluster results. Could I relate to that?
I feel like Jason and I have felt a lot of the same things and we’ve talked about this off and on throughout the show. Hopefully, we can cover it in a little bit of a different way. I was reflecting on that, plus how it feels odd to promote something at least this year 2020. I felt this in other ways, but stronger in 2020, given that many people are struggling financially to promote something of a product of yours and encourage people to buy something, especially through the bundle.
A lot of people lead with this marketing tactic of, “Get this great deal. You’re never going to get it again. This is such a huge value. You can’t miss out on this.” I’ve been listening to an eBook. It is called The Year of Less by Cait Flanders. In this book, she talked about how it is tempting, especially during Black Friday, Small Business Saturday, and Cyber Monday. These days in particular are incredibly tempting, but then we have sales throughout the entire year. We have sales around holidays like Christmas, Hanukkah, and Kwanzaa. We have New Year’s specials. We have Valentine’s Day and summer specials and on and on. There’s pretty much always a sale.
Sometimes I feel a little uncomfortable doing a sale, even though it feels good to be generous. It feels good to give somebody a discount. That truly is generous. Jason and I have spent a lot of time and energy creating programs like The Consistency Code and we have invested so much. We value them. We want people to get something out of them. That’s why they’re priced the way that they are. The Consistency Code is $195 normally. We put it in this bundle sale for $50 and that feels generous to us but then simultaneously I feel a little conflict. I’m encouraging people to spend their money and it’s interesting because that’s part of being an entrepreneur, a small business owner. If you create something that you believe in, you want to sell it. You want to be proud of marketing it, but there’s simultaneously this feeling of like, “Am I doing this for me? Am I doing this to make money? Am I doing this to help people?”
I genuinely am helping people but certainly, it is to make money. It is to keep things going. With this show, for example, we don’t make much money off of this show. We do it out of our desires to help people. We enjoy doing this show, but we do need to make some money in order to keep this going, otherwise, we can’t justify the time. Jason and I have created programs like The Consistency Code and Wellness Warrior Training because we want to help people and people are looking for support with these things, but they’re also part of our business plans.
I don’t have an issue with marketing and selling in general, but there’s a particular feeling of hesitation, burnout, or some other energy. I can’t quite put my finger on Jason and I’m curious to see how you feel about it during Black Friday. It’s because many people are promoting their sales. I feel a little weird participating in all that “madness,” intensity, and FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out like, “Am I perpetuating that cycle and encouraging people to buy out of a place of scarcity?” That’s where this is at.Life happens, and things need to be paid for and debts paid off. Click To Tweet
I have many thoughts. What you said, Whitney, at the core of your hesitation or your concern is something that I also share with you and with our friend, who’s talking about this feeling of burnout. At the core, if we look at the origins of marketing and modern advertising, there was a person, Edward Bernays was a nephew of Sigmund Freud. One of the fathers of modern psychotherapy. Edward Bernays came to the United States. He’s one of the most 100 influential Americans of the twentieth century. He orchestrated these modern pivotal advertising campaigns and he used psychoanalysis and these foundational subconscious marketing techniques to create the advertising industry as we know it. He is the father of mass manipulation.
When I worked in the advertising industry before doing wellness, cheffing, and all the things we’re doing, I remember sitting in meetings, which still J. Walter Thompson worldwide is still one of the biggest ad agencies in the world. My first job out of college was working for one of the biggest ad agencies on the planet. I remember talking about the subconscious motives of why people buy what they do. At that time, I was on the team for Ford SUVs and trucks like the whole No Boundaries thing when that campaign was out. We had the Explorer, the Excursion, Explorer Sport Trac, and all these big giant SUVs.
We were talking about some of the taglines, the imagery, and how the cars are designed that the front grill and the look of a vehicle are supposed to mimic almost a predatorial animalistic feel to it. When you’re driving this giant behemoth, this huge truck, this sports car, this SUV that it’s this subconscious feeling of dominant aggression toward other drivers. That if you have a big hulking menacing, angry-looking vehicle, people will get the fuck out of your way. Therefore, you’re safer. These are the actual conversations we would have. Deeper than that, what you’re talking about in the issue that I have too, is that there’s a roach recycled set of language, copy, and manipulation tactics to get people to buy things and scarcity is a big one.
It’s “If you don’t act now, you’ll miss out. Don’t miss out. The final call, don’t let this pass you by. If you fuck this up, you might not get another chance.” It’s the same tactics and the same language being recycled over and over. Over Black Friday, I was perusing through the emails because much like you, Whitney, and you, dear readers. You probably got bombarded with hundreds of Black Friday, Small Business Saturday, Giving Sunday, Cyber Monday, and Takeout Tuesday. This is going to be five days of bombardment but it’s the same copy and psychological techniques.
It’s rare for me to see an email or a piece of communication around this time of year or any time of year or regarding marketing. That isn’t something that we’ve already seen before and isn’t tired and old like the same over and over again. For you, that’s the issue I have with it is it’s a lack of creativity, but it’s also pandering to the lowest common denominator of scarcity and lack, which is one of the primary illusions that drive our toxic capitalist system. There’s not enough for you. “You over there, there’s some for you, but not enough for you guys over here.” That is one of the foundations of our capitalist system.
What’s challenging and part of the reason that we do continue to market things. We’re not saying that we’re going to stop marketing because we deeply believe in our programs like The Consistency Code. It’s interesting because human beings, there’s a tendency in our behavior and we often need a mentor, a guide, a coach, and somebody to push us to do things. Marketing is part of that. Marketing is simply saying, “This is something that you might want or need, and now is a good time to buy it.” There’s that side of it. That’s why we’ve been part of these bundles. This was a huge part of the reason we participated this year is we weren’t that concerned about the money. As I said and quoting this anonymous friend of mine, we don’t usually make that much money from these bundle sales because we’re not willing to push ourselves as a place of burnout.
Even when we have pushed ourselves to the place of burnout, we haven’t made that much money. Jason and I hesitated to do a bundle in the first place for that reason. We thought like, “What’s the point? We’ve burnt ourselves out.” Considering that most of these bundles that we’ve done in the past have fallen on a Black Friday. There have been many Thanksgivings over the past. For many years that I’ve been doing these that I have been working on Thanksgiving and getting up at the crack of dawn on Black Friday to finish the work. I was trying to do all the work ahead of time, but I still found myself in 2019 working on Thanksgiving. I remember vividly. I planned Thanksgiving plans I had around the fact that I was going to work.
I was setting it up. The people that I was with on Thanksgiving, I said, “Just so you know, I’m going to be doing some work tonight. I’m going to go take a break at some point to do this work” This 2020, I did not do that and that was an incredible feeling. Jason and I consciously decided that we were not going to put a ton of effort into it. We send some newsletters. We posted about it on social media a little bit and mostly on Instagram. We made some ads for our show and that still worked. We didn’t need to put in that effort. The reason we put in that effort is that we want people to like you, readers, to know that The Consistency Code exists.
It would be nice if you wanted to spend $195 on the program but if you don’t have that money, we can certainly make it easier for you by selling it to you for $50, as well as all these bonuses. We would rather make less money but have you part of a program that we’re making than not have you want it at all. That’s a huge thing. We knew that we are going to introduce that program to hundreds of people through doing these bundles and that was one of the big motivators. A whole other story is a psychology of people signing up for things and never using it or buying things and never using them. I think that least part of this conversation because I have a problem with that too.
You spend all this money or time searching for deals for what reason? To get something that you never use, get something that you only partially use, or get something that you only use once or a few times to add more clutter to your life physically or digitally. I have a huge conflict with that too. I downloaded all of the eBooks that were part of this bundle sale and I glanced at them. I’m never going to look at them again. There’s too much. That’s part of it too, Jason is over these years, we’ve thought, “We’re giving so much value to people by participating in these bundles,” but maybe it’s too much. Maybe it’s better to give somebody one thing to focus on. People get into this either analysis paralysis or that overwhelm of having to choose and too much to do. That’s a huge problem too and reflecting on these bundles.
For the readers, I’m not trying to discourage you. If you are going to utilize them or if it does feel valuable, maybe you get a bundle simply to get our program. That’s great. You don’t need to use anything else, just buy our program for $50. That is worth it. The energetic weight of having 80 plus other products there for you, I don’t know if that feels good. I wonder if people don’t buy bundles for that reason and I could relate to that. It’s a complicated thing. It would be interesting if we offer The Consistency Code for $50 without a bundle sometime and to see how it resonates with people. Sales though are interesting because I don’t know if that necessarily moves the needle. For our readers, send us an email, send us a direct message, or public comment on your thoughts on this because I’m genuinely curious like, “What would even drive you to sign up for something?”
Our goal is to get you the results that we’re offering through our program, The Consistency Code. We also have Wellness Warrior Training but The Consistency Code is our focus at this moment. That’s what we’ve been promoting and I’m excited about it. I feel proud of it. I want people to participate in it but it’s interesting that even the people that signed up for The Consistency Code through this bundle sale are inactive. Maybe 1% or 0.5% of the people that signed up for The Consistency Code have taken any action at all since they bought it. I’m thinking like, “What are they waiting for? Are they waiting for another day? Are they ever going to use it?” Chances are no. This is what we’ve noticed, time and time again. It’s closer to 10% of people that take action but this time, when you look at the numbers of people that sign up for something versus the people that use it, it can be small. That’s when I wonder, “What’s the point of even signing up for it in the first place?”
This is a point of frustration because on the one hand, as business owners and entrepreneurs, we want to generate capital and income, so we can keep the business going and keep the lights on. There’s a pragmatic part of that of like, “We live in a capitalist country. The mechanisms of how our financial system works are what they are until we revise or replace them with something else, which in our lifetime may or may not happen.” I venture to say that it will for a litany of other reasons but we’re in a space of like, “If we are in business, we need to sell things.” Does that mean every single person who’s in business has to sell? No. There are a couple of exceptions.
I know two people who exist on word-of-mouth referrals. They don’t have social media pages, they don’t advertise and they don’t take out Google Ads, anything. It’s all word of mouth. That I would be curious to see statistics on that but I have to imagine that’s a grandiose anomaly in 2020 that people thrive solely on word-of-mouth referrals. I know two people that are doing it and it’s fucking amazing. It’s like a relic from a bygone era, but God bless them, they’re outliers. There’s the side of it that we want to give people programs, products, books, courses, coaching, and things that we think are going to uplift their lives. After we make the sale and we enroll someone, if they don’t use it, it’s almost a little frustrating for me of, “Thank you for paying us but are you going to do anything with this?”
There were interesting persons when I launched my first course back in 2017, My Healthy Hustle. I had different tiers of packages. I had the basic package of the course and then I had upgrades and the highest upgrade was buying a package of private coaching sessions. They’d get them My Healthy Hustle course and then in addition, because they got the grand package, they would get coaching with me. I followed up with this person multiple times. They never contacted me back for coaching. They bought whatever it was $1,500 package and never took me up on the coaching. They never asked for a refund, nothing. It was the most bizarre thing. To your point, it’s like, “Thank you for the abundance that we can continue our business going and continue offering this show but are you going to use the damn thing?” It’s odd to me.
I’ve had that same experience and I’ve gotten used to it. It’s part of the human condition. I’m curious about people’s motivations like why they do something and why they don’t do them. Sometimes they have to come to a place of acceptance. It is interesting as a coach when you see somebody invest a lot of time and/or money into something and not do much with it and I’ve seen this a lot like with my private clients too. I get so lit up though when somebody that I’m coaching does the work. This is happening with one of my coaching clients. I am blown away. She does work fast. I feel like I’m behind. We’ll finish a call and I’ll think, “I’ll send her the summary or the resources later.”
There’s no rush to it because there isn’t with other people, but she’ll be messaging me later that day or the next day like, “Can you send me this thing? I want to get working on it.” I’m amazed by this type of people. I’ve also seen some of those people that are good at taking action at some phases in their lives and other times not. There’s another person who I used to call my star student because this person would take action quickly and was making all this progress. Years later, the progress stopped, they paused and things changed a lot. I also have seen it at all different phases and each of us is at different places in our lives with why we’re doing things.
A lot of people buy something and realize they don’t need it or they buy something and realize they don’t want it right now and they’ll use it later. This happened to me. I realized I had a piece of software that I bought in 2013 and completely forgot that I had it until they sent me an email that implied that I had already purchased it. I was like, “What do they mean? I don’t remember purchasing this.” I went and looked back and thought, “I have access to this. I had no idea.” I’ve done that with many courses. That’s one of the huge reasons we created The Consistency Code is because we don’t believe that you need any more stuff or any more information you need to be consistent with using it.
That’s the ironic part of this program, Jason, I remember when we first launched it in January 2020, we did the live program. It was about 10% of people even showed up to the live calls. They keep thinking to themselves, “I’ll use this later. I’ll do it later.” That’s counter to the whole point of enrolling in the program. The program is not to keep putting things off to procrastinate them. You have to commit to doing them or realize that you’ll never do them at all. Many of us, through marketing and this, is part of the issue here is that we overextend ourselves. This is one of the fascinating elements of a book called Do Nothing that I read named by Celeste Headlee. She’s a phenomenal broadcast journalist and also a great author. I’m reading another book that she wrote about communication. I love the way she writes. I highly recommend listening to the audiobook of Do Nothing or reading it. She talks about there’s a whole history in terms of the reason that we work hard in our obsession with productivity and we get into this place of massive overwhelm.
We fill our lives with so much that we don’t even know what to do with it anymore. We’re used to hustling all the time and doing so much. We have all these big goals and dreams but there is only so much that we’re physically, mentally, and emotionally able to handle. Because we’re in this capitalist world of more and more and never feeling enough, we accumulate a ton of stuff. The problem becomes even worse because we haven’t felt enough so we’re trying to fill up the gaps, feel enough, and do our best, but when we have too much on our shoulders, based on everything that we’ve bought, enrolled, and agreed to do, we end up feeling worse about ourselves, not better. It’s not fixing the problem, but marketing convinces us of that.
Many of you have heard this, especially true in the beauty industry. We are marketed and convinced through marketing that we’re not pretty enough. We’re too young, old, heavy, or slender in our bodies. We don’t have enough muscle tone and on and on. All of these not enough messages that we’re constantly given, that is a way of convincing ourselves that we need more. I’ve noticed myself shifting in terms of any of my marketing. I never want anyone to feel they need to buy my product to feel enough. I’ve made a pivot because I used to do that type of marketing, not from a greedy perspective because that’s how I was trained to market.
In some of our episodes, especially the one with Corbett Barr, he talks a bit about minimalism, especially digital housekeeping. One of the things that we touched upon in that episode, and in some others is how Jason and I have each gone through our careers as entrepreneurs, evolutions, and journeys here, trying to figure out where we fit in and what feels right to us. It’s an ongoing evolution. We’re never going to get to a specific destination. We’re constantly learning. A lot of our training has been this marketing that we’re talking about here.
It’s been using psychological tactics to convince people to buy something, but ethically, I don’t feel fully right about that. I want somebody to buy something of mine because they feel good about it. I want it to feel like, “Yes,” to them. Marketing has done us a big disservice because it confused us. We don’t even know what to say, yes or no to anymore. We see a sale and some of us feel weak and we think like, “I have to buy it. Maybe I’ll use it one day.” Maybe we feel that fear of missing out. This happens to me.Capitalism and encouragement of consumption continue to breed and encourage us to be consumers. Click To Tweet
I noticed this a lot during Black Friday, 2020 is when those emails would come in, I wanted to read them so I knew what the sale was because I didn’t want to miss out on a good deal. There was one that I looked at, examined and I thought, “Will it ever be this inexpensive again? Maybe I should take advantage of it.” If you step back from that, you realize that if you want something, you’ll pay the price, whatever it is. You’ll save up your money. I’m doing this myself. I want a new iPad badly because of the iPad that I have is what I use every single day to read.
You hear me mention a lot of books on this show. If you didn’t know this, I read constantly. I love reading digital books on my iPad. That’s a product that is a huge part of my life. My iPad is cracked, old, and outdated. I can’t update the software. Most importantly, I have developed a big passion for drawing, doing artwork and I love doing it on a digital device. Apple now has this cool pencil that you can use that doesn’t work with my old iPad. With my budget, it doesn’t make sense for me to spend that money. I decided I’m going to save up for it. I’m going to wait until I have that money. I’m not going to put it on a credit card and put myself in more debt.
I’m going to save the money up and buy the iPad when I have that actual cash in my hand. Through that process, it’s teaching me how important it is and I get to continuously check in with myself to make sure that I want it. It becomes more valuable as a result of it. That feels better than impulse buying or putting something on my credit card because it’s a good deal right now. It’s fine with me to pay full price, especially if I’m saving up for it because it helps me value it that much more. It helps me realize the place that it has in my life.
The idea of how we value things is a fascinating thing. I’ve noticed over the years that when I give things away for free, people don’t use or value them as much as if they pay for them. I’ve also noticed that when I’ve done concerts, that there’s also a similar vibe between the ticket price that I would charge for an event like a speaking event or a concert I would play with a band. If people get in the door for $5, for free, or they’re comped, their behavior demeanor level of appreciation and attention is different than if they paid $55 for a ticket but it’s not guaranteed.
People can prepay for coaching calls and never take them up. There are outsiders and anomalies to all of this. If we assign a certain value to a thing or an experience and invest ourselves in it, it’s not necessarily about the outcome of what the thing is going to provide for us or having it create an outcome. Although that’s the sticky thing with courses, books, training, and people sign up for $50,000 masterminds with certain people, they do expect an outcome. It’s a bit tough when we’re offering what we offer in the world. If people think it’s going to fix, cure, and help them, we can’t guarantee any of those things. The language that people use around marketing courses, books, coaching, and masterminds often does lean into this idea of, “It will make you X amount of money, solve your problem, and provide a cure for whatever this thing that’s ailing you.”
To go back to some of the training we’ve done over the years between books, training, coaching, and conferences, that’s tens and tens of thousands of dollars to grow, learn and expand ourselves. In one of the last training we did, we were involved in a coaching program to assist entrepreneurs in refining their offers and growing their businesses, like scaling and building a mailing list. One of the biggest issues that I had with their strategy and their recommendations, which mirrors a lot of people in the industry was, to survey the audience, find out what their issues and concerns are, and then “agitate the problem.” In your emails and your copy, name the problem, create a point of the relation of, “We’ve struggled with this too,” and then agitate it like, “Does it keep you up at night? Does it cause you to overwork and not see your family as much? Do you feel disconnected from loved ones?”
This whole agitation of a problem never sat well with me. You’re trying to reinforce a person that something’s wrong with them like, “You’re not making enough money. You’re not successful enough. If you’re burning yourself out and you can’t see your family, you’re doing it wrong. Here’s a way for you to do it right.” I don’t know what the answer is. When I write our Wellevatr emails or you and I work on copy together, I’m always trying to think about, “How can I communicate with a person like a human, have a conversation with them and not try and agitate or create a problem that may or may not even be there.”
I don’t want to implant an idea in someone’s mind that something’s wrong with them if there isn’t just to sell them something. Most of the marketing that goes on, not just in the wellness or entrepreneurial world, you mentioned cosmetics and I mentioned cars, we see it in every industry that goes, “You’re not enough. You don’t have this thing. You don’t look, speak, and dress this way. You must be a loser. You must not have a lot of love in you.” There are a million different offshoots and tentacles of this, but creating problems and agitating them, I don’t feel good about that style of marketing anymore. I was doing it because that’s what the coaches, experts, or people that we looked up to that were “ahead of us” were doing. It was like, “It worked for them so it’s got to work.” It worked for them maybe because they don’t mind agitating a problem or pointing out something that’s “wrong with someone or convincing them something’s wrong.” I don’t want to do that anymore. It doesn’t feel respectful, kind, and it doesn’t resonate anymore.
I haven’t thought about it from that perspective. I’m glad that you shared that because it gives me some things to reflect upon. From my perspective, I thought I was being helpful and a lot of marketers do believe that they’re being helpful by pointing those things out, but it’s eye-opening when you phrase it that way because our huge aim with Wellevatr is to make people feel enough and not, not enough. We don’t want to remind people of what’s going wrong in their lives. That is a little manipulative. People struggle with these things. It’s a universal experience, but to single someone out and make them feel that they need something from us is manipulative. It’s an unraveling and I’m noticing it.
I catch myself doing these things and it’s going to take us some time to disconnect from the system. We’re not saying that we figured this out yet. We have a long way to go. We’re tuning into ourselves. We hope that the readers are getting insight into us and thinking about your purchasing decisions. If you yourself do marketing, thinking about how you’re doing it as well. There are many different takeaways from this. I think about myself as a consumer and a creator. It does tie back into this world of influencer marketing. Part of the reason that this particular process of being part of a bundle sale.
The reason Jason and I hesitated at first to participate is that it does feel kind of old school. It’s ironic in a way because you’ve got all these people that look like they’re hip, modern, and on the cutting edge, but they’re using these old school tactics. That is on the deeper level why Jason, myself, and our anonymous friend here have been doing this for so long. It feels old to us versus some of the newer influencers, content creators, and entrepreneurs. It might not feel old to them because they’re new to it and they think this is the way that you should be doing it. We’ve gone through those stages ourselves. That’s where I’ve recognized this because I studied marketing for many years. It was based on the older ways of doing things.
When you look at the history through the lens of someone like Celeste who wrote Do Nothing, she shares where a lot of these mindsets about productivity, hustle, and grinding came into place. They are simultaneously old and new. This has only been going on for 100 years or maybe a little bit more. I don’t remember the exact date of when the 9:00 to 5:00 was created. That was around the time of Ford. The history was a little muddled up in my head that’s why I recommend everyone to read that book, Do Nothing because it’s a great read on productivity, efficiency, the hustle culture, and all of that. There are two things at play here, one, this is the “old way” of doing things if you consider 100 years or less old and simultaneously, the new way of doing things because 100 years isn’t that long.
As human beings, we are still going through a major evolution. We are still figuring out. The world is rapidly changing around us and that can feel unsettling. That can cause uncertainty. It’s unsettling and uncertain because it’s relatively new. Even our technology is new. Being able to podcast the way that we’re podcasting is new. Using our iPhones to go on Instagram is new. Yet, for some people, it feels old. This weird mental confusion that we’ve created like buying things, getting sales, and being able to shop online, that’s all-new too. Our brains are struggling to catch up that’s why it can feel scary or frustrating, and it causes anxiety, burnout, and all of these tough emotions. Our brains are like, “What the heck is going on? We have information. We don’t even know what to do with it. Now, you’re giving us even more information.” There’s so much at play here.
Going back to that influencer side of things, that’s part of the conflict that I have is in these bundle sales, we’re partnered up with all of these content, creators, influencers, and entrepreneurs. Most of them are classified as influencers. I was talking about this to somebody. I didn’t bring this up to you, Jason. I was afraid it was going to trigger you, but if I’m going to trigger you, I might as well do it on the show so we can talk about it openly. The bundle sale that we’re part of has been sharing some of the results that people are getting. I don’t know if you’ve seen any of this but some of these people have made $20,000 in one week. When I read that, a few things come to mind for me. One is like, “What? I’ve never made that much money in that short of time.” Have you ever, Jason? Maybe from acting. Have any of your on-camera roles paid you that much money for a week or less worth of work?
When I was doing the TV series, I was paid well for that. I don’t want to get into specific numbers, but I have made that money in a week. It’s not a consistent thing by any stretch of the imagination. It would be nice to have that but I have experienced it before. It’s a rush. It’s a wonderful feeling to make that income in a relatively short period of time.
I don’t think that’s ever happened to me. There’s part of me that’s like, “Wouldn’t that be nice?” Personally, the way that I live my life, if I made $20,000 in a week, I’d be set. I live a minimal life. $20,000 would get me far. I could kick back and do a few more weeks. It may be a few more months of work and be good for the year. That time freedom and that amount of money can give somebody sound great. For this person who has achieved that and doing the same exact bundle sale that we’ve been doing, I don’t know if that feels like enough money to them. Maybe their lifestyle is grand and $20,000 doesn’t give them that much or maybe they have a debt to pay it.
That’s the thing with money is it’s relative to each of us. To get to a place of jealousy or admiration doesn’t serve us. What also doesn’t serve us is thinking like, “How did that person do that? How did I not accomplish that?” Jason and I are not pulling in that much money, even close to that amount of money doing these bundle sales. That’s a big achievement that we have not experienced and that’s okay. In the past, I have seen numbers like that and fallen deepened into the comparison trap, and thought, “What’s wrong with me that I haven’t achieved that. What am I doing wrong? How am I failing?” I’m grateful that I have come to a place where for the most part, I can see that result for somebody else and feel like, “That’s remarkable and good for them.” I genuinely think that.
I also have this hunch and I don’t know if it’s because I know enough about some of these people that are making that much money. I know them personally or I’ve gathered enough information about them. I don’t think that they feel that fulfilled achieving that. That was a huge a-ha moment where I thought, “My hunch is that making that much money is not that big of a deal to them.” It would be a huge deal. If I made that much money, I’d be speechless. I don’t even know what I would do if I made that much money in a week. For them, it might not be that awesome, exciting, life-changing or year changing. It might be like, “Cool. I do this all the time. I still have a ton of other problems to deal with.”
It’s fascinating when you examine those things. The conversation I was having with my anonymous friend was that I’m not willing to do the work that it takes to get to that place like sacrifice sleep, stress myself out and take the photos that I might need to take for Instagram to get those results. If I look at that person’s Instagram feed, I’m not willing to do that because that person might be taking a certain type of photo that I don’t want to take. That person might be hiring a ton of people and investing a lot of money to get incredible videos and photos.
That person might not sleep as much as me because they’re busy doing photoshoots, videos, writing captions, and setting themselves up for years and years to get to that place. If I pick apart and examine it, I’m thinking, “It’s not worth it for me to make $20,000 in a week.” It sounds cool in theory but a lot of us don’t even recognize how much work that takes. It seems easy and it seems like, “That person lucked into getting all of these people that want to buy from them.” It’s not that easy in my experience. If it is easy for somebody, that to me is a rare case. That is an exception, not the rule because social media is not easy for most people. It truly is a grind and a hustle that some people choose. At this stage in my life, I don’t want to choose that.
It comes down to why are we doing what we do? We have talked about the importance of getting clear about why. It’s one of the main teachings in The Consistency Code we talk about. Not a surface level of why either. It’s a system to scrape away our own internal bullshit to try and get to the real reason why we’re doing what we do. If you think about a person who might be willing to lose sleep, hustle, and invests, you and I have done this, and maybe the readers, depending on what field you’re in too. There are times where you go without sleep, food, and taking care of yourself to try and hit a specific goal you have in your life whether that’s a success or financial metric. We’ve all done some version of this. Even if it’s in high school or college, cramming all night for an exam the next day. Many of us know what that feels like.
Underneath the money, success, Instagram fame, or whatever it is someone is acquiring as an asset in their life, what is this for? It’s important to bring up is that underneath the idea of making a certain amount of money, getting a number of followers or amount of influence, however, that’s metrically measured, it always goes back to the four dual basic urges. I’ve talked about my mentor Michael, his teachings, and his system of transformational anthropology. It’s like, “What does that represent to that person?” If we look at the gain side of this, does that money and that level of success with this thing give them more pleasure and comfort? Does it give them more attention? Does it give them more of a sense of approval, importance, and significance? On the opposite side of these urges, does it help them escape from pain and discomfort? Does it inoculate them against rejection or abandonment? Does it help them avoid disapproval? Does it help them overcome feelings of inferiority?
For most of us conditioned people, they’re either chasing the pleasure, comfort, attention approval, and significance, or they’re trying to escape pain, discomfort, rejection, disapproval, and inferiority. If you dig deeper into the psychology of all this, maybe on some level of them getting $20,000 in a week, or however many followers are part of their lesson as a human being of examining these things like, “Maybe they don’t feel great after making $20,000. Maybe they get a million followers on Instagram and it’s a shrug.” It’s part of that person’s life journey to examine, what is the point of all that? If there’s no joy at the end of it or it’s a big shrug fest, why do it?
I’m glad that you said all of that. That shows a lot too. I hesitated to share those numbers with you because I was afraid that you were going to beat yourself up when you heard them.It’s not bad to want things, but it's important to be honest with ourselves that the constant desire for more, better, faster, bigger, or different doesn't lead to joy. Click To Tweet
I don’t give a fuck. I don’t. When I say, “Don’t give a fuck,” I don’t mean that in a nihilistic way. In years past it would have triggered me. In years past, I would’ve been like, “Fuck, what are we doing wrong? We’ve been doing this for over a decade, why are they getting all of it?” They’re marketing who they are, their life story, what their desires are, what they are trying to acquire or avoid different than you and me. Who am I to judge like, “They’re doing better than we are. They must be better marketers, content creators, and way more influential?”
If I dig under the hood of who this person is or who these people are, chances are I’ll go, “I don’t want their life.” One of the things that I’m using and employing if I start to feel I’m falling down the pit of the comparison trap is, “Do I want to trade places with them? Is that what I would want?” For whatever reason in their karma and their life path, they needed the $20,000, did we? Would it have been great? Would we or may not have appreciated it more? Sure, but for some reason, we weren’t meant to do that. We don’t know why. There’s a part of surrender that I use so that I don’t fall down that pit of comparison of, for whatever cosmic and karmic reason they needed that money and they needed that success.
That’s such a great perspective and it’s great to hear too that your mental health is at that place where you can examine it that way. It can be detrimental to get into the comparison trap or the not-enoughness of, “Why did this person get something that I wanted.” I see this a lot on TikTok, there’s a trend, it seems to be emerging, but it’s nothing new because we’ve seen this on a lot of different platforms of like, “I’ve worked hard. I did all of this stuff and I didn’t get these results and somebody who’s not working as hard as I am getting it instead. Why do they deserve it more than me? Why haven’t I had that?”
It’s all about comparison. We don’t know why but everybody has their own special history that comes together in a way that creates results. There have been unfortunate conditioning that we’ve had and this ties into the marketing perspective because it is all marketing. We have marketed/conditioned to believe that if we followed X, Y, Z steps, we’ll get this result. When we see people that don’t do those steps and get the same results, it’s confusing and frustrating. It’s frustrating when we’ve been told, “If you put in ten years of work, it will all pay off.” A lot of the times it hasn’t paid off in the ways that we thought it was going to, it might’ve paid off differently. When you see somebody who gets the results that you’ve been working for many years and they get them in a year or less, you think, “Why do they deserve them? Why didn’t they have to work for many years? Why did I work for years and not even achieve the same results that person got in one year?” That can be mentally challenging simply because we’ve been conditioned to believe that we deserve something because we did X, Y, Z.
The slippery slope here to that’s important to acknowledge and this is my life experience. You talked about making a certain amount of money in a week and where my mind goes is this tendency that humans have to have the shine wear off of experiences, the appreciation wears off of experiences, or our tendency as human beings to take things for granted after a certain point. I remember being on the TV show and getting a check for $40,000. That was stultifying. I had to take a moment and take all that in but if I fast forward a few months later was the feeling of like, “I made $40,000 still there.” No. It was life happens and things need to be paid for and debts need to be paid off.
That’s when I moved into that condo that I had years ago. The initial like, “This is an amazing moment,” it wears. There’s also this feeling of, you want something so much, whether that’s an income or these finite material metrics of success that the world encourages us to chase. You buy a new house, you move into an apartment you wanted, or you get a car or a motorcycle you wanted, there was that excitement of getting the thing you’ve wanted. At a certain point, the excitement might not wear off completely, but it’s never as amazing as the moment that you get it.
Why is this important to discuss? It’s because I think that baked into capitalism and encouragement of consumption to continue breeding and encouraging us to be consumers, is this idea of knowing that we’re going to pine for things, desire things, compare ourselves to our friends, neighbors, and family, and want what they have. Most times greater than what they have like, “Jim next door got a Volvo. I’m going to get an Audi. Edward next door is going to see me and my Audi and he’s going to get a Tesla. Jone is going to see Edward in his Tesla and she’s going to go out and get a freaking Rivian.” It’s important to know that you make $20,000 in a week from promotion and like, “I’m going to put up down payment on my new house.” You get to the new house and like, “I’m going to get the new Lambo.” It wears off.
It’s part of the intrinsic mechanism that keeps us buying shit and keeps us under-appreciating stuff because they know that at a certain point, the shine is going to fade and we’re going to want more and more. It’s all interrelated. It doesn’t mean it’s bad to want things, but it’s important to be honest with ourselves that the constant desire for more, better, faster, bigger, or different doesn’t lead to joy. It doesn’t lead to lasting happiness. It reminds me of the people that I’ve met over the course of my life that have had unconscionable wealth beyond crazy stuff.
A common thing that I’ve noticed with meeting and interacting with people like this, there’s a gentleman who we know proverbially through a friend of ours and I’ve been to his house. He’s got the McLaren, Lambo, G Wagon, and Tesla. He’s constantly buying more and more stuff because it’s boring. By buying a $400,000 car to him is like, “It’s a suck money.” There are boredom and a lack of appreciation. You get the thing, the shine and excitement wear off and then you need the next thing. It doesn’t matter whether you’re exorbitantly wealthy or you’re a regular person. We’re all subject to the same manipulation and the same pitfalls of wanting and wanting. The cycle never ends unless we’re like, “I don’t want a bunch of new stuff all the time.”
That also wraps into the training, courses, books, coaching, and everything you and I are talking about is that some people, instead of cars, houses, motorcycles, jewelry, or watches they’re self-development junkies. I know people like this that they’ll go to Tony Robbins, Brendan, Michael Hyatt, Tai Lopez or whoever the fuck it is, and they’ll go over and over again. They’ll buy the books, courses, do the coaching, pay $100,000 for the mastermind, and they’re addicted to self-improvement. It’s important for us to acknowledge what we are going for. What are we chasing? Significance, importance, approval, attention, trying to avoid being ignored, and trying to avoid feeling like we don’t matter. We, as individuals, have to get deep into the psychology of why the fuck we do what we do. A lot of times we realize that we’re chasing things and we don’t even realize we’re chasing them.
It is a matter of awareness. What’s made this conversation interesting is that its awareness as a consumer, marketer, and creator. It’s examining why we’re doing things. I’m constantly thinking about this and noticing, it’s tricky to step out of this matrix because it is baked into our psychology. The same is true with social media is looking at like, “Why do we do what we do on social media?” This is part of a conversation I had in my group Beyond Measure. One of the participants asked that question and we were specifically talking about posting about the holidays and whether or not we are spending time with loved ones, which is such a sensitive subject due to COVID, there are a lot of opinions online about, “Should you see somebody, should you not, or should you fully isolate yourselves?”
There’s a lot of judgment and a variety of opinions, which makes it complicated. With COVID, the best practices are not black and white. It’s shining a light on us as human beings in our tendency, desires, and, whether or not something feels safe or unsafe and how it affects other people, etc. We are talking about whether or not to post on social media during Thanksgiving, because what’s the point? I was thinking about this like, “Why do I need to share a picture of what I’m eating?” Maybe people like to see that, then what? What happens beyond the like? The other question was, let’s say you spent Thanksgiving with somebody, do you have to explain to everybody what you did?
I’ve been seeing this too, people will post pictures with their family and the caption is this long in-depth explanation of how long they quarantined, how many tests they got, and how they decided it. Each of us feels like we have to justify ourselves. Part of me is thinking, “How many people aren’t posting online because they’re feeling shame or they have to hide things?” This is part of a bigger conversation, but it ultimately ties into this. Why we do what we do? Why do we make these decisions? Why do we feel the way that we feel? It’s complex. You can sit back and overanalyze every choice you make or you can simply do it. Whether you’re buying something or selling something, it does come down to what is your gut instinct at that moment?
Tuning in like, “Do you need to be doing this? Does this have a greater purpose? Is this a short-term thing or a long-term thing? Does this bring you joy? Does this make you feel good? Does this contribute to the world in a positive way? We’re not always going to go through that thought process. Sometimes we buy something to buy something. Sometimes it feels good to sell something. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes we buy something that we love, sometimes we buy something and we never use it. We don’t have to take it seriously, but I enjoy evaluating things to an extent and it feels therapeutic to discuss it as we have now. Hopefully, it has benefited you as well. We certainly would love your feedback and your thoughts.
It brings me joy when I get a direct message or an email from one of you as a reader. Some of the readers of the show are people in my personal life and that’s even greater. One of my family members read the blog and maybe she’s reading now. Sometimes she’ll text me and say like, “I read this episode. Write to me these in-depth responses to the show,” and it is awesome to read. I genuinely love knowing from people like yourself as readers. If you feel called to share something with us to give us feedback, to continue the conversation, please do. If you have our phone numbers, send us a text. Most of you will recreate that simply by sending us a direct message on Instagram or Facebook. You can email us at [email protected], that’s the domain name of our website and our username on social media. Speaking of which, Jason now is the time for you to do your brand shout-out, to finish this brand shout-out sandwich that we started at the beginning of this episode.
The conclusion of the shout-out sandwich is going to be me gushing about a new company that I discovered through our mutual friend, Mr. Matthew Rogers. He is one of our favorite people. I’ve personally known Matthew for many years. He was one of the first pastry chefs at Cafe Gratitude in San Francisco, along with Tiziana Alipo Tamborra. They innovated raw vegan desserts on a level that had never been done before with cakes, pies, chocolates, and truffles. Anyone who’s ever been to the original version of Cafe Gratitude in the City of San Francisco, those desserts were groundbreaking. The stuff that they were doing in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, for me, especially coming out of culinary school like, “How did they do this type of moment?”
I had the good fortune to meet Matthew many years later and gush all over him. He posted that he is now the head formulator and chocolatier for a company called ReCreate. This is a company that was launched by the Stanley brothers who have put a company called Charlotte’s Web on the map. Anyone who is into CBD, THC, cannabis, Charlotte’s Web, one of the OG brands. They have a new brand called ReCreate, and the website is ReCreateCannabis.com. They reached out. I had mentioned something about how excited I was that Matthew was involved with the company and how he’s a master chocolatier.
They sent me a message back and said, “Would you like a sample of some stuff?” I said, “The timing of this is perfect because I got in a motorcycle accident. I’m going to have surgery,” and they sent me a care package of CBD, THC, and botanically infused products. They sent me their relief, relaxation, sleep, and their everyday tincture. They did not send me chocolates yet. I want to email them back and see if they’ve got any chocolate samples.
If you get those, I’m pointing at myself right now, I would like you to share some with me.You can sit back and over analyze every choice you make, or you can simply do it. Click To Tweet
I was anticipating the hook, a sister up gesture, the thumb pointing at Whitney. That’s her hook me up communication with me. The cool thing is, they have these tinctures that are a blend of MCT oil, CBD, and THC in different ratios. They have a relief one that has turmeric extract that I’ve been taking during the day. If you’ve detected over the past few episodes, if I sound high at any moment or loopy, that is the reason why. I have chosen to take these tinctures instead of the narcotics. This is not a medical recommendation. We are not medical professionals, but for me in this recovery from surgery, I’ve had a lot of pain. On Thanksgiving, I was in a ton of pain and it comes in and goes.
I found that these ReCreate formulas are wonderful because I don’t have to take the codeine, the narcotics, or some of the chemical options to manage my pain. I can use their tinctures and they’re phenomenal. The branding is gorgeous. They have gummies. They have these chocolates like their Sleep formula, they have valerian root. Their Focus, they have lion’s mane mushroom. Their Relax has ashwagandha. They have a Relief formula that has changed in it. For anyone who knows, we love medicinal mushrooms, superfoods, and activated functional products. I want to give a massive shout-out and a huge dose of appreciation to ReCreate and to Matthew Rogers for turning me on to this brand.
Thank you, guys, for helping me manage my pain after the motorcycle accident and the surgery. I can’t recommend these guys enough. Whitney, I’m going to see if I can get my hands on this chocolate and hook you up with some of this because so far, their tinctures have been delicious and effective and have made all the difference for me from having a massive amount of pain, so props to ReCreate and their entire team.
Dear readers, we are nearing the end of this episode of this show. To dig into ReCreate’s products, to dig into any of the resources and books and further learning including our course, The Consistency Code and Wellness Warrior Training, we also have a ton of free resources. We have 3 or 4 eBooks. We have many great video training. Our website is chock-full of goodies. We hope you take advantage of them and dive all the way in. It’s Wellevatr.com. You can follow us on all the social media networks. If you want to shoot us a DM, we’re on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, TikTok, and YouTube.
*We use affiliate links in our show notes. This means we receive a small sales commission if you purchase an item based on our recommendation.
- Vegan Essentials
- Ladybug Jane
- The Consistency Code
- The Year of Less
- Wellness Warrior Training
- J.Walter Thompson
- My Healthy Hustle
- Do Nothing
- Beyond Measure – Pinterest
- [email protected]
- Cafe Gratitude
- ReCreate Cannabis
- Wellevatr Holiday Giveaway
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