MGU 249  Karli Miller-Hornick | Using Cannabinoids


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Trigger WarningThis episode includes personal stories of severe depression and suicide ideation. 

While it may look like a passing health fad, using cannabinoids has actually produced a lot of great results. CBD products have helped people manage body pains and emotional issues without using anti-depressants and other synthetic products. Join our hosts Jason Wrobel and Whitney Lauritsen as they get into a lively discussion about CBD products with the founder and CEO of Head and Heal CBD, Karli Miller-Hornick. Listen in as Karli discusses using CBD products for bodily and mental health, and for your pets, too. We also learn what you need to look for in a CBD product in this brilliant episode. 

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The Natural Solution: Health Management Using Cannabinoids With Karli Miller-Hornick 

As someone who is a self-professed obsessive pet parent and that’s a word that’s a little bit contentious because I will use that phrase colloquially with people like, “I’m a cat dad,” “A dog dad,” or, “A pet parent.” That activates some people who are like, “You didn’t birth them. You’re their guardian.” For me, using the words pet parent, I always feel closer to my animals emotionally, not that I need any additional emotional closeness. 

Anyway, as a cat dad or a dog dad, I deal with many personalities in this household. There are a variety of different motivations, fears, anxieties and proclivities. For anyone who may not be close to animals, when you spend years and years with a bunch of different animals, you realize that they have extremely distinct personalities, quirks and needs that are individual to them themselves. Karli Miller-Hornick is our amazing guest here. 

We have very limited research on both animals and humans on the effects of CBD. Share on X

We’re talking about the Fourth of July and the challenges with the Fourth of July here in Los Angeles where Whitney and I live. It’s literally a warzone around the Fourth of July. It’s nonstop hours and hours of ballast, bombast, explosions, craziness and music. For anyone, animal or human, who has a sensitive nervous system, it’s difficult. In 2021, I’m excited with my French Bulldog, Bella and all my cats, Figaro, Julius, Lynx and Claudia. I have a lot of animals. They’re all in the other room. If I were to open that door, they would come rushing in a furry horde like barbarians. 

Your CBD, Karli, you were generous in providing some for Whitney and me, not only in our human bodies but with our companions. Evie is Whitney’s dog and it’s been interesting to see not only how the CBD has been affecting my body but in particular, how it’s been affecting emotionally and energetically animals and I want to kick that off because we were talking about that beautiful picture of your boy, Zeke in the background. I’m curious because all of us are animal lovers. 

We have many dedicated readers that are also animal lovers. What is going on? What is it about animals and how would they respond to the benefits of CBD? I’m interested to see how this affects Bella during the Fourth of July but to kick it off with you, Karli. What is it about Head & Heal and your pet CBD? How does it affect them? Why is it beneficial? Do you get a lot of feedback from your customers saying it’s helped their animals? 

I have a dog named Zeke. He was a rescue. He came from an abusive family. He was always anxious and barking out the window. He has issues with aggression towards other dogs. I was always looking for a way to help him. I started giving him CBD for his anxiety a few years ago and not only did I see a vast improvement in his anxiety but I saw fatty tumors on his body start to shrink. As he’s gotten older and has joint pain, I do see differences on days where he has CBD or doesn’t have CBD and joint pain. 

The pet stories are my favorite stories. We got our start at Head & Heal because of a dog. One of our good friends had a pet French Bulldog. It was the love of his life. He is a pet dad. The dog was a three-legged dog. He would carry it around everywhere and bring it around in the stroller. The dog needed surgery. After the surgery, the dog was not getting better. The vet told him, “Your dog only has two weeks to live. Say your goodbyes.” This dog was his baby. The dog wasn’t growing hair back at the site where it had gotten its incision and it had no energy. It wasn’t eating. 

We’re like, “Try some CBD. It can’t hurt.” It was when we were getting started when we had our first bottles. After a few days, he drove up to the farm, handed us a $100,000 check and said, “Start your business,” because the dog’s hair started growing back. It started acting like a puppy again and started eating again. The dog has passed away. She was an old girl but it extended her life by many months. That first $100,000 was what we used to get our extraction lab up and running. Pets are at the center of Head & Heal. I’ve always had an obsession with dogs since I was little. The pet stories are always my favorite. Sometimes we have placebo. We’re not sure about what we’re feeling but dogs, either they are not moving or eating or growing hair or having those things. 

A lot of people start with CBD because if they’re skeptical, they start by giving it to a pet. They see how impactful it was on their cat or dog. They’re then like, “Maybe I should try this.” The reason that CBD works in both humans and pets is that we both have Endocannabinoid systems, which are systems within our bodies like our vascular systems. That wasn’t discovered until the ‘90s, our endocannabinoid systems, which is why most people don’t know about it. It’s not taught about in school. 

It’s been discovered and is only being researched because hemp was illegal until 2018 in the United States. We have limited research on both animals and humans on the effects of CBD. Over the past few years, the number of anecdotal stories that we’ve had on impacts that people have seen on their pets and themselves has been incredible. We know that CBD interacts with our endocannabinoid system. We have receptors in our body that respond to cannabinoids. Dogs, cats and humans all have these systems in our bodies. 

MGU 249  Karli Miller-Hornick | Using Cannabinoids

Using Cannabinoids: The reason that CBD works in both humans and pets is that they both have endocannabinoid systems, which are systems within our bodies, just like our vascular systems.


I love hearing this story, Karli. As you were talking about it, I was on the website, It is one of the most beautiful CBD websites I’ve ever seen, honestly. I bring that up because Jason and I have both had a lot of experience with CBD. Not only have we tried a lot of products, looked at the marketing and all of that but I’m also sitting here thinking about how I still feel confused about it. I also saw that you sell CBG and CBN, which I have a little knowledge of to my awareness. 

I got some to try. I don’t know what this is. I don’t know when do I take CBD versus CBG versus CBN? I don’t know if it’s only the abbreviation that is confusing. We’ve talked about this on a number of episodes. We did one mostly around CBD. Honestly, I still feel confused. I’ve seen the interchanging of words like hemp oil and CBD. People get confused. This is part of the reason that people are hesitant, even though it’s been around. 

I feel like a lot of people trust it but they are not sure how effective it is. When you tell the story of this dog, it’s compelling. Because as Jason said, I have a dog and I’ve started giving her your product, the CBD oil for small dogs. Going back to your brand name, the website is not only amazing but the product packaging. For anyone, we have a     YouTube channel you can see the visuals. I’ve been giving Evie your product but I still find myself hesitating and wondering things like how often and when do I give it to her? 

If it’s made a subtle difference in my life when I take CBD as a human, I’m willing for that. I believe in it. It doesn’t have to be super strong for me to continue taking it but I wonder with my dog, she hasn’t had any major health challenges. It’s often subtle in a healthy body. I’m curious if that’s typically true. You hear people get a major relief but let’s say you want it for maintenance for you and your animals. I’m curious about that and also, I’m still learning how to get myself in the routine of giving it to my dog. When it is a subtle effect, “I wonder if I can skip it?” or, “It doesn’t matter what time I give it to her,” or, “I can go a month without using it.” I’m curious more about how do you get people to understand the long-term benefits of how to use it and work it into their life so they can achieve those long-term effects? 

Taking CBD every day is important. Building it up in your system is extremely important and in your pet’s system. For me, it’s all about making sure it fits into our routine. It doesn’t matter what time of day as long as you remember to do it. There is no difference between our human product and our pet product. They’re both certified organic. They’re both made with the same ingredients. One has cute packaging with animals on it. Honestly, the easiest thing to do, I take our 600 milligrams, which is our purple bottle. It’s the same as our medium dog CBD. 

I put a dropper or two droppers. My dog is 75 pounds. I give him two droppers of this on his food. Out of the same bottle, as I’m doing that, I put it under my tongue. Because I have to feed my dog every morning, I have to take care of him. It forces me into this routine to also then take care of myself because it’s easy to let these self-care routines go. That’s how I build it into my life. You can be like, “I feel good.” What we hear over and over from our customers is sometimes they don’t realize the CBD is working for them until there’s nothing left in the bottle. 

They then stop for a week or two weeks and their symptoms start coming back, symptoms of pain or their anxiety, panic attacks, sleeplessness. I tell people, “You should try it for 30 days. Take it consistently for 30 days.” I wouldn’t say stop taking it after those 30 days but give it an entire 30-day trial before making a judgment on whether or not it works for you. CBD has been shown to have immunity properties and create homeostasis within your body, within our endocannabinoid systems. 

Some people do take it as an everyday wellness supplement. CBD is not cheap. For me, it is not an everyday wellness supplement. It is a crucial part of my self-care routine. If you’re invested in that, I struggle with depression, severe anxiety and panic attacks. I depend on this. It is my medicine. I came off of Xanax and onto CBD. Xanax was giving me a foggy head. I felt like I couldn’t think right. It had some negative side effects that I did not want to continue to be on it. I had such severe panic and anxiety. I knew I needed something. 

When we started the business, it was because my business partner got Lyme disease. I had no idea what CBD was. I remember the first two weeks that he was talking about it, I was like, “You’re going to get us arrested. We’re going to get taken out of here in handcuffs.” “What are you talking about?” Because we were growing vegetables. We still do grow a lot of vegetables and it’s been a big learning journey for me. I’ve been taking it consistently for a few years. It has become an important part of my wellness especially with dealing with anxiety and depression. 

I want to acknowledge and share my appreciation for you going into your story, Karli, because the thing is each one of us silently struggles. At least I certainly did for years with clinical depression and suicidal ideation until I finally realized, “I need to address this.” We’ve talked a lot about depression, suicide anxiety and stress and I am glad you brought this up. To dig in a little bit deeper to your journey and the inspiration for starting this company, you mentioned being on pharmaceuticals to manage your mental health. I talked to a lot of people about this. Whitney and I both do and what I see is a lot of resistance from certain people to get away from pharmaceuticals or perhaps create a bridge from being on SSRIs and perhaps slowly weaning oneself off and then going toward more natural solutions. 

Taking CBD every day is really important. Building it up in your system is extremely important. Share on X

I’m curious about your journey. Was this something that was a slow, gradual process of you weaning yourself off of the SSRI and then investigating more natural solutions? What was that like for you? What was your body going through? Also, this is important. How did you know it was time to finally focus on CBD and the more natural solutions and not go back to the SSRIs and the Xanax? If you don’t mind sharing a few more details about that, I know we have some people who might be resistant to doing the experiment you did even though it was successful for you. 

It’s good timing because I’m in the middle of this experiment. I am still on antidepressants. In 2019, a few months into starting the business, I dove into the darkest depression of my life. I didn’t leave my house for nine months. I had severe panic attacks that I wasn’t safe even though everything was totally fine. My anxiety and panic come up in vomiting daily. It’s one of the first warning signs for me that I’m getting overwhelmed and anxious. I was suicidal. 

I ended up admitting myself to the hospital multiple times because I was scared of what would happen. I was hopeless. I remember saying I didn’t want to be here anymore. I didn’t want to live anymore. There was nothing for me. We had started the business already. After our first round of fundraising, I went into full panic mode because I’ve never run a company. I’ve never been a CEO before. I was like, “I can’t do this. I’m never going to get these people their money back.” It’s our friends and our family. I crumbled under the pressure of it all. 

I did go on antidepressants. I’ve been on multiple antidepressants throughout my life but it took a lot of time, first of all, to find the right one. It then took a long time to find the right dose. I remember I was on my antidepressant for months before I talked to my psychiatrist and said, “This is not working.” We decided to double my dose. That was when it started turning around for me. My antidepressant saved my life. My psychiatrist and my therapist, I’m grateful for them. 

Only now have I decided to start weaning off of my antidepressant. It has been tough. The antidepressant that I’m on is extremely sedating. Within twenty minutes of taking itI feel like I’ve been hit by a truck. I have a hard time waking up in the mornings. My boyfriend has always thought that I’m not a morning person. I was trying to explain to him that this medicine is sedating. My biggest fear when starting to wean off of my medication was that I wasn’t going to be able to sleep. I talked to my psychiatrist about that. I was like, “What should I do?” I asked her if it would be okay to supplement with CBN. She said, “Go ahead and try that.” 

The first week weaning off my medication, I was like, “Let’s see how it is without the CBN if I can sleep.” I did not sleep that entire week. It was rough. The withdrawal symptoms of coming off of an antidepressant, this one especially, are intense. If I don’t take my medicine for one night, my body starts shaking. I can’t sleep. It’s severe, which is one of the reasons I want to come off of it is the withdrawal symptoms. A week into reducing my dose, I decided to start taking CBN. When you asked about this like, “What’s the difference of CBD? There’s CBG. There’s CBN.” 

There are hundreds of cannabinoids found within the hemp plant. THC is one of those and is the one in marijuana that’s responsible for making us high. There are other cannabinoids like CBG and CBN. Each of these cannabinoids has its unique effects. It still needs research on what each of these does. From our experience and our customers’ experience, CBN is sedating. It is the sleepy part of cannabis. If you’ve ever smoked old weed, CBN is responsible for what gets you high because CBN is degraded THC. 

When THC is exposed to air and heat over long periods, it converts to CBN. CBN or cannabinol is the sleepy sedative cannabinoid. I started taking ten milligrams of CBN a night. The first night was the first time that I fell asleep. I woke up at 3:00 AM but I fell asleep and slept for a few hours. The next day then, I was like, “That works. Why don’t I double my dose?” I went up to twenty milligrams of CBN. I slept through the night. I had been using our CBN to help me wean off of my medication and I’m also taking CBD. 

I’ve been taking CBD the whole time that I’ve been on antidepressants. You can take them at the same time. I use it as support. I am hopeful that I will be able to fully come off of my antidepressants but it’s a journey. I had a real wake-up call. I woke up and threw up, which is what was happening when I was in my deepest state of depression. I was throwing up every single morning. I know that is my first warning sign. That is my body’s first way of telling me, “You are not okay. You are overwhelmed. You are burnt out.” 

I told myself and my therapist that if I start throwing up, everything has to stop. Work has to stop. Life has to stop. I have to take care of myself. I haven’t been able to do that as the CEO of a company but I am looking forward to Memorial Day weekend. We should have some time to rest. I also talked to my psychiatrist about, “This is happening. This is scary. I don’t want to get sick again. I don’t want to go into that dark place again. What can we do here?” It’s important to work with a professional especially if you are on antidepressants or any pharmaceutical medication. 

You should be working alongside your therapist and your psychiatrist to make a plan and be open to changing that plan. For me, it means slowing down, weaning off of the antidepressant, which is a bummer. I don’t want to be on it anymore. It’s also that these things take time and your body needs to adjust. I do find that the CBN is helping me sleep at night with the lower dose. Maybe I need to start increasing my CBD intake instead of staying at the dose that I was at before. Maybe, I should start taking more and maybe that will help. It would also help to not have such a crazy company and life. I love what I do and I’m passionate about what I do. It’s hard to slow down. It’s important to work with somebody as you’re making those changes and it’s a journey. 

I’m glad that you shared that Karli because it reminds me of when I experimented with antidepressants. I struggled a lot with my mental health in college and felt helpless and alone during that time. I’ve had panics, too. I’ve experienced panic attacks off and on. It’s not something that’s frequent for me. I’ve experienced a lot of anxiety but at the time, anxiety wasn’t spoken about that openly even depression. That was part of what made it confusing and lonely. I got referred to a psychiatrist because I was struggling with disordered eating. 

I’m so grateful. I don’t even remember who it was that referred me and how I got there. I remember acknowledging that I had a problem and telling it to my doctor. They first sent me to a nutritionist. The nutritionist maybe was the person that referred me because they recognized it wasn’t that I didn’t know. It is such an important thing too, many of us, definitely people in the health world, our health is a huge priority. 

This is part of your story too, Karli. Even when you have the tool that doesn’t mean that they’re necessarily working for you. You need that professional support. I knew a lot about food and what foods were nutritious versus weren’t. That wasn’t the problem. It was a deeper-rooted issue that a psychiatrist helped me with because I felt I wanted it to end as quickly as possible, that discomfort. Especially, I was only a freshman in college. I was young and inexperienced. I panicked because those emotions were deep. 

A lot of what you’re describing, Karli, is something that a lot of people experience which could be trouble sleeping, concentrating, feeling sad. It becomes incredibly frustrating when you’re trying to go about your life. It’s almost like you have two different parts of yourself. I don’t experience that as extreme now, fortunately, but I do have days where I feel like there are different parts of me operating at the same time. When you’re describing the fatigue, I had that experience of a day where nothing was working. The fatigue was strong and it wasn’t about lack of sleep. 

I was down in caffeine but nothing was waking me up. I was frustrated because all I wanted to do was work. I truly wanted to work like you’re describing too, with running a business. I remember this at school and college, wanting to be there, to do these things but feeling confused. There was a part of me that wasn’t able to move forward because of all those tough emotions. I went on antidepressants. I took Wellbutrin, which was prescribed to me by my psychiatrist. 

Using Cannabinoids: When you combine harvest mechanically, you have to put that plant,that ground wet plant through an industrial dryer and basically blow hot air onto the plant, which also burns off the cannabinoids.


The other thing I identify within your story, Karli is, I had this awareness even back then with my limited long-term wellness knowledge. I didn’t want to be taking antidepressants like what Jason was saying too, which led to this. There was a part of me that’s like, this isn’t the avenue I want to take. There’s nothing wrong with it. I didn’t feel shame and taking it. It was that I wanted to find a natural solution. I wish the world at that time was more accepting as it is about cannabinoids because there was such limited discussion that I was finding as a college student about natural remedies. 

I started taking St. John’s-wort. That was like the popular thing back then. I remember to Karli, that fear. I wanted to get off the antidepressants on one level. On another level, I was afraid to go off. I remember some of my past experiences deciding not to take the pills, trying something different and praying that it would work. Fortunately for me, I didn’t have severe depression or to my knowledge and anxiety disorder. It was mostly more of mental health, not a chemical imbalance or anything. 

Even then, I was still left with unknowns. Your story also shows how much progress we’ve made and how many resources are available but also you have a comfort level to talk about these tough times, Karli. I want to acknowledge you for that and how strong you are as a person to share that in a public setting. Also, the ripple effect that has on other people, myself included, reflecting on the past and the present and thinking like, “Look at these options that we have. Look at how far we’ve come in acknowledging these mental health struggles.” Jason, did I see you tearing up at one point? You seem to have a physical reaction. I’m curious what was going through your head as Karli was sharing that. 

I know what that feeling is like, in my way. The three of us have lived different lives with different backgrounds. That feeling of not wanting to be here anymore. That feeling of, in some ways, my body is betraying me. These are hard things to deal with. I was getting emotional, Karli, hearing your story because it’s deeply relatable. There are days I still feel that way. One of the challenges of this process of experimenting with our bodies and trying different things is there are some days where I will have manic episodes and genuinely feel deeply suicidal, still to this day even with all the work I’m doing. 

Some people take CBD like an everyday wellness supplement, but CBD is not cheap. Share on X

Psychotherapy, somatic experiencing, going back into past trauma, taking things like your CBD, experimenting with different things to boost my neurotransmitters. It’s not a quick fix. We live in a culture that is obsessed with quick fix. When we’re talking about what you experienced, Karli and Whitney, we’ve experienced. This is not a quickfix conversation. It’s a conversation that is painful. That’s scary, sometimes confusing and frustrating. Other days where we have breakthroughs and we feel great. I’m emotional because it’s all relatable. I’m also emotional because I still struggle. I’m not out of the deep water. 

At the beginning of my mental health journey, when I was diagnosed with clinical depression, I had an idea that if I checked off all the boxes, “I’m going to work out every day. I’m going to meditate every day. I’m going to get a psychotherapist, get a somatic healer and take my supplements,” that I would be cured of depression. My framework, my cosmology around it and I are curious how you feel about it, Karli, is I’m not trying to cure it. I’m trying to manage, understand it and realize that every day is going to be a little bit different. I’m curious on maybe more of a spiritual or mental level around this. What’s your attitude around your process? 

Much of what you both said that I can relate with, first of all, when you’re talking about how you got to your therapist. If you’re reading and if you have a friend who is depressed, I feel lucky that my best friend recognized what was happening with me. She reached out to me and said, “You need to see a therapist. Can I help you find one? Can we call one together?” If she hadn’t held my hand and done that, I never would have taken that step by myself. I was already in such a bad place. 

My brain stopped working. I couldn’t even do the work to figure out how to get to a therapist. I am grateful that I had a friend who could do that for me. I know people always feel helpless when they have a friend or a family who’s going through something like this. If you have a friend or a family member, make an offer, hold their hand, help them get the help they need. We’ve come far with this. I went to Cornell University undergrad. It was a lot of pressure. I remember going to therapy there. 

We had the Student Health Center nurses and pharmacists come out to our farm and tour our hemp fields. They are now using our CBD in their health practices in the Student Health Center with their students as the first line of defense against depression and anxiety, which says much as to how far we’ve come. That would never have happened when I was a student. We are seeing clinical doctors start to accept this. For me, I remember while I was depressed, I felt this doesn’t make any sense. 

I have everything I want in life. I started a business that I’m excited about with a business partner that I trust. I have a loving boyfriend. I have an amazing dog. I have this great house. There’s nothing wrong. As you said, Jason, your body is betraying you. It was like what was happening in reality did not match the way that I was feeling. I felt hopeless and alone in it. I felt like I was the only person in the world who had ever felt this way before and that nobody else was depressed. 

MGU 249  Karli Miller-Hornick | Using Cannabinoids

Using Cannabinoids: Every season is different. Sometimes we get more rain, sometimes less rain, sometimes the plant will produce higher amounts of different cannabinoids.


When I’d be on Facebook and somebody would post their own story, experience, about what they had gone through. While those stories were sad, they made me feel like I wasn’t alone. They weren’t even necessary. It might have been somebody who I went to college with but I don’t even talk to or somebody that was not even a good friend of mine at least I felt like I wasn’t alone that other people were feeling this that other people were struggling because when you’re in it, you feel like you’re the only one in the world who feels that way. 

On the other side of it, although I know that I will deal with depression for the rest of my life because I am prone to it and it’s about, as you said, Jason, managing it more than curing it. I’m sitting here. I have this company. I’m happy. I feel great. I feel a responsibility share my story because a lot of those stories that people were posting on their social media came at a point where I was ready to take my life. I had tied a rope around my neck that day. I had spent all of the hours that I was awake thinking about throwing my body in front of a car, in the road or in front of my house. 

The only thing that was preventing me from doing that was not leaving my bed. I truly believed that if I got out of my bed, I would end my life. That was a scary feeling. The shared experience is important. We only see the happy side of social mediaYou go dark on social media when you fall into depression, at least I did. There are maybe two pictures from that entire year of me. Even in those pictures, I am smiling. It might have been the only two times that year that I was ever smiling. 

If you didn’t know me, you would have no idea what was going on with me. It’s time that we break that perfection. That we share real stories, real experiences because all that perfection on social media hurts other people. No one’s life is perfect. It doesn’t show reality. For me, it was about sharing my story is important. If one person reads my story and helps them on their journey to feeling better, I have done my job in this world. 

It’s about managing your symptoms rather than curing them. My therapist has helped me to figure out how I can do that. One of the things that have become apparent is that my depression is triggered by the seasons. I live in upstate New York, in Ithaca. We have a long, dark, grey, cold winter. It was in the winters when I usually do my spiral into darkness. A lot of people who suffer from seasonal affective disorder often go undiagnosed. People are like, “I don’t know. I don’t feel good.” If you feel like a different person in the sunshine, when that sun comes out and you’re in the best mood ever and that sun goes away and you’re not, you’re heavily affected by the weather. I am sensitive to it. 

No one's life is perfect and it just doesn't show reality. Share on X

One of the things my therapist helped me as far as a management tactic was that I need to leave in the winter. I need to leave Ithaca. Whether it’s going to get into some sunshine whether that’s for 2 weeks or 1 month or whatever it is, I have to make that happen. Not only do I have to make that happen but I also need to have that trip booked for me by the end of August or September so that I have something to look forward to. I know that I get to escape this freezing, cold, frigid, awful winter and that I get to go somewhere with sunshine. 

I got to do that for the first time in 2020. My boyfriend and I went to Costa Rica and it was unbelievable. Having that trip planned on the books made me much more hopeful through that season. In 2020 because of COVID, we decided to road trip it down to Austin, Texas, for a month and we got to escape. Luckily, this new world of remote working allows for a lot of us to do that, even if it’s four days in the sunshine. Take a long weekend, go down and get to the beach. All those things have helped me and my therapist has helped me understand when to start doing those. 

I also started using a happy sun lamp which I have right next to me. It gives us good Zoom lighting too. The sun lamp is something I know that at the equinox or daylight savings that when we set our clocks., Usually, that’s when I start with my happy lamp. Sometimes, I start increasing my CBD dosage going into the winter. These are all things for managing our symptoms but it doesn’t mean that they’re going to go away. It doesn’t mean that I might not be in a dark place again. feel like I have chronic depression. I’ve been depressed multiple times throughout my life. I’ve recovered and survived multiple times. The more times you experience it, you become more resilient and you start, hopefully, believing and yourself that you will get through it next time. Although when you’re in that dark place, it’s hard to believe that it’s ever going to get better. 

The more times you experience it, get better, you’re like, “Things are going to get bad again but things are also going to get better again.” That’s something that you have to live through. It’s a life experience. No one can teach you that because how many people tell you when you’re depressed like, “It’s going to get better. Everything is going to be okay.“ Your brain does not allow you to truly believe that. Until you’ve lived through it, it’s hard to accept that. 

You talk about resilience, Karli. It brings up a question that I’m curious about. Do you find it was scarier with your first battle with depression versus with your multiple battles in which I can also relate to? It feels like, for me, the first round was the scariest because it was unfamiliar. It’s not that the nuances don’t change or necessarily maybe the triggers that bring on an episode for me but I’m curious for you. When you talk about resilience, is it when you vomit or have a physical reaction you know when it’s coming on? You then can manage your self-care or adjust that dial a little bit? Do you find it’s less scary now because you know what’s coming as opposed to the first time you experienced it? 

No. The last time, the 2019 episode was by far my worst and scariest episode. It’s the closest I was to take my life for sure. Even though I had survived, I would say other pretty bad periods of depression, it got scarier this time because I felt like the two other ones were triggered by certain events whereas this one made no sense to me. I had everything in the world that I had always wanted and was still feeling this way. It was scary, being on the other side of it, being able to look back. 

MGU 249  Karli Miller-Hornick | Using Cannabinoids

Using Cannabinoids: Everyone’s endocannabinoid system responds differently and it doesn’t matter your age, sex, race, weight. It doesn’t matter. We just all respond to it differently.


I feel like maybe next time, hopefully, it will be a little bit easier. For me, though, I’m still working with my therapist to reflect on, “You got better. Let’s pay attention to this. Let’s mark this.” Even on good days, I’ll record a video message to my future self because I know that we will all deal with grief and depression in our lives. Sad things happen. I know that I have a lot of hard things ahead of us. Everyone does. To record a video of myself, of my face, I’ll be like, “Future Karli, this is you in a good state of mind. Everything is good. I know you’re feeling depressed. I know you’re feeling hopeless. You’ve been through this before. You’ve got this and you’re going to get better.”  

Having those video reminders, I’m hoping it will be a part of what I call my arsenal in helping me get through a potential future episode of depression. I wouldn’t say it gets less scary. I get more life skills. I feel like I have these tools in my toolkit, with my therapist, my trips, my CBD and my exercise, all the things I’m doing for wellness. I feel more prepared for it. I’m not sure it’s ever going to get any easier. 

I wanted to ask you something, Karli, about this spirit of experimentation because you mentioned that. Whitney and I are big proponents of making as many experiments as possible because we’re going through life. Our physical and mental needs change. Certainly, if I reflect on my needs at age 44 versus 34 versus 24, they’re different. What my body needs to thrive is different in my mid-40s. Being that as it is, with Head & Heal, I have noticed something interesting. Whitney and I have tried many CBD products. 

We’ve been blessed and privileged through the Natural Products Expo and meeting different entrepreneurs and brand owners to have tried a metric ton of CBD. When we talk about experimenting with dosages and trying different products, I have tried many of them and not felt anything, not a palpable difference. Nothing discernible. There’s no difference in my pain, whatever. 

With some of the other CBDs on the market, I would do 5 to 6 drops and not feel anything. With yours, I did an experiment where I tried that same amount. It was almost not too much. How do I even describe this feeling? Yours is much more potent than the others I’ve tried. I have two questions. I’m curious why that is. Do the organic certification and the Full-Spectrum formulation, the way you process and harvest have something to do with the potency? 

Also because I did the same dosage that I would do with other products, I remember I was driving, it hit me and I was like, “That might be too much for my body.” I’ve scaled it down to half as much. I’m talking maybe 40 milligrams, whereas I was doing 80 milligrams or 100 milligrams. Not dangerous, I wasn’t high but my state was altered. It’s feeling like I was in a bath while I’m driving. I’m like, “I shouldn’t feel like I’m in a bathtub while I’m driving. That might not be a good idea, feeling sudsy and loose.” Many questions in there. What’s the difference that, for my body, makes you’re much more potent? What’s going on in my body when I take that high dosage because I’m not high but I feel altered? 

First of all, you’re not the first one to say that. We’ve gotten hundreds of reviews saying, “I’ve tried five other brands of CBD. None of them ever worked for me but this one did.” We thought that was like a fluke. We got one or two of them but we keep getting reviews like that. I see them every single week. What we do at Head & Heal is unique. I encourage anyone to go to our website and take our farm tour because we show you exactly how we make our products to demystify them. There is much mystery around CBD. It’s like, “What is it and where did it come from?” In reality, it’s from the hemp plant. 

Some of the unique things we do at Head & Heal that most other companies don’t is we hand-harvest our plants, which means we cut every single plant by hand. We trialed in our first year in 2018. Our first year growing, we decided we wanted to try hand-cutting plants versus a mechanical harvester. You take up corn combine, which is those crazy-looking machines that come in and chops all the plants down, grinds them and then puts them into a truck. 

We tried these methods side-by-side, hand-harvesting versus the combine. With combine, you could harvest a 2-acre field in half an hour wherein hand-harvesting, a 2-acre field would take about 3 to 5 days for a team working full-time of about 5 to 6 people to harvest. Different labor costs in both of these methods but when we did test the combine-harvested hemp versus the hand-harvested hemp, we had lost, first of all, all of the terpenes. Terpenes are what are responsible for the smell and taste of hemp and many other plants. 

For example, linalool is a terpene. It’s responsible for the smell of lavender. Linalool is a terpene that’s found in hemp along with many others. There are a lot of terpenes that have their medicinal properties and are important. We lost all the terpenes when we mechanically harvested. We also lost over 30% of the cannabinoid content in the plant. We decided, even though the labor costs are way higher, we were going to hand-harvest every single plant. The other thing that we do, which is crazy is we hang dry and slowly cure every single plant. 

This is because when you combine harvest mechanically, you have to put that plant that ground wet plant through an industrial dryer. It blows hot air onto the plant, which burns off the cannabinoids and terpenes. They’re volatile. The process of machine harvesting and then going through an industrial dryer destroys your crop. The flavor was disgusting from the stuff that went through the dryer versus the stuff that came from our slowly-cured plants. 

It was like night and day. It was wild that we didn’t expect it to have such a difference. I liken it to a good wine. You need good grapes to make good wine. You need high-quality hemp to make good hemp oil. Our process is all about preserving cannabinoids and terpenes as much as possible. We’ve crossed compared our products to like some of the top companies out there. We kick their butts on cannabinoid and terpene content. That’s part of why our products work when others don’t. 

The other thing that you mentioned about taking 80 to 100 milligrams. Our products are true full-spectrum hemp. There’s much verbiage in this hemp world of what things mean and much confusion. Full-spectrum hemp means that the product contains THC, which is what gets you high. You might be a little bit high. Within the United States, the legal limit in CBD product is 0.3% THC, which is a low amount. A normal cannabis flower, marijuana flower is at least 12% THC to get you high. At 0.3%, we’re not even close to that. 

In our 2,400, if you’re taking 80 milligrams of full-spectrum CBD, you’re also getting 3 milligrams of THC in that dose. A gummy, usually in a legal state, an average gummy is about five milligrams of THC. You’re going to feel something with the three milligrams of THC. You’re not going to be impaired. You are safe to drive but you’re going to feel something. THC and CBD work synergistically together. They’re important to have together to have a more effective product. 

We believe in full-spectrum. We were one of the first companies to take the methodology that we do and that we think that having THC in the product is extremely important. Sometimes, when you look at companies, for example, that say that their products are Full-Spectrum and then you go and look at that company’s lab results on their website. I’ve seen that there’s no THC in the product. There are no other cannabinoids in the product. A lot of it is misleading marketing. 

Because CBD is completely unregulated by the FDA, by any government, people can do whatever they want, say and label as they want. If you are a conscious consumer of CBD, first of all, you should always be looking for lab results. We have videos about how to understand and read those lab results. You should be looking for lab results. Every single product and every single batch should be tested. It’s not one lab result for the whole company, which we’ve seen before too. You should make sure that it matches the lot number on your bottle. You should check the CBD percentage. 

You need good grapes to make good wine. In the same way, you need high quality hemp to make a good hemp oil. Share on X

You should check the cannabinoid percentage. You should look into what terpenes are in the product. Every single batch is going to be a little bit different because, like wine, every harvest and season is different. Sometimes we get more rain, sometimes less rain. Sometimes the plant will produce higher amounts of different cannabinoids. Every batch is different. It’s a different vintage every time we harvest or do an extraction. 

It’s important to look at those lab results and understand what’s in them. For us, the most important thing is one, that the potency on the bottle actually matches the potency on the lab results. You’re paying for what you’re getting because it is expensive. Two, there are minor cannabinoids like THC. Three, there are terpenes. A lot of companies don’t even test for terpenes but terpenes have medicinal properties. You should look for companies that test for terpene content. 

That’s a phenomenal rundown. I realized that I must be an unbelievable lightweight if I am feeling like I need to be in a bubble bath at 3 milligrams of THC. Thank you, Karli, for confirming. I am a lightweight. I already knew that but now we know for sure. 

I also sometimes feel that way. When I take 80 milligrams, I often feel it. You’re not a total lightweight but some people are more sensitive. My cofounder takes 80 milligrams of CBD with 3 milligrams of THC. He’s sensitive and he’s like, “I can’t focus, I can’t work.” That’s why you have to dial it in. People are always asking us like, “What’s the right dose? How much should I take?” They want it to be like Tylenol where it’s like, “Take two every 30 minutes or what that is not that often. Take two as needed throughout the day.” 

Everyone is different. Everyone’s endocannabinoid system responds differently. It doesn’t matter, your age, sex, race and weight. We all respond to it differently. People aren’t used to like their doctors telling them, “You have to listen to your body.” What does that even mean? You have to self-reflect. We’re trying to build some tools to help people do that. You have to dial in your dose. We recommend starting with a low dose. The average adult does take about 40 milligrams of CBD. 

When we survey our customers, that’s where usually people are happy. If you have a sensitive system starting with 10 or 20 milligrams, it might be the right place to start. Working then your way up as needed. Usually, we tell people to start at 10 or 20 milligrams. Do that for a week. If you’re not feeling the relief that you’re looking for, increase by double the dose until you’re feeling where you’re at. You have to spend the first month trying to dial it in. We then have all these different bottles, there are all these different options. 

How do we know where to start? Usually, we start people like on the purple bottle, which is the 20 milligrams of CBD per dose. Once you know that 40 milligrams are your dose, you can jump up to our bottle that is 40 milligrams per dropper. As you jump up, you get it a little bit cheaper because you’re buying in bulk. The cost per milligram of CBD goes down. We are going to do a promotion for you all if you go to We’re going to do a one-month free trial of our 600-milligram oil. That’s a full month. You take a dropper of 20 milligrams per day for a month. It’s a free month. You pay shipping. Go to and you can try out our 600-milligram oil. 

I hope a lot of the readers take advantage of that because we’re massive fans of it. It’s That’s incredibly generous of you, Karli. I know that our readers are discerning and we’re always mindful and selective of what we recommend. One of our ethoses is we only recommend things that we’re using in our daily lives. It’s refreshing to know that someone like you who’s a sponsor and we’re grateful for your sponsorship of this episode and supporting the show. 

We also get to proselytize and preach our love for your company. It’s not like, “We’re bringing Karli. She’s some random from Northern New York State with the CBD brand.” We’ve tried it. It works on the bulldog. It works on the cats. It works on the sensitive guy. Whitney, this is interesting. When you take it, do you find that you are super sensitive as well? What dosage do you do? Because I mentioned mine is 80 to 100 milligrams and it’s party time. Do you find that you’re also super sensitive? Do you find that you can rock a higher dose and you’re fine? 

MGU 249  Karli Miller-Hornick | Using Cannabinoids

Using Cannabinoids: A lot of companies add melatonin to their products so that they can legally make health claims or legally make claims about sleep on their packaging.


I’ll be transparent that I have not tried Head & Heal on myself yet because of the way things work with the show. Jason and I divvy up products. I got the products for Evie. That’s what I’ve been using it for. Hearing all of this and looking through I didn’t even realize how many products that you made. One thing I wanted to point out is that you have that quiz on there. I want to go through and take this. I love how you phrase it to help people navigate this, which is going back to something we’ve said multiple times and people that are interested in taking CBD, CBG or CBN and feeling confused but also unsure. I love that you have this routine. I’m going to go through this myself. I’ve been giving it to Evie regularly and monitoring it.  

In terms of my experience, I’m similar to Jason in that I am a lightweight especially when it comes to THC and that most CBD products I’ve taken had a strong effect on me. That could have been the product or to your point, Karli, maybe I haven’t gotten the dosage right. Also, knowing that now you’ve explained so well the whole spectrum. I’ve known that full-spectrum exists but also it tends to have some indication on the quality. I’ve certainly found that the products that are made with as much intention as you’ve put in, which I think is such a rare combination, Karli. Your organic, full-spectrum, you’re showing transparency about how things are made. 

There are few companies that I can list off that go through that process of transparency with their customers, which I get naturally drawn to it. There are a lot of brands as CBD has become so trendy. That’s part of the disservice because there are many products out there, people will typically if they’re brand new to something, try something cheap or they’ll try something that somebody recommends. It’s been hard for a lot of people to understand, most people probably don’t know someone that can recommend it. The average person just goes out and buys some random product off the shelf that maybe was advertised to them or was inexpensive. If it is not high quality or they don’t take the right dosage, don’t feel anything and they think up, “I’m not going to bother with CBD.” A lot of people see the price point of high-quality CBD and go, “That’s too expensive.”  

That’s one of the reasons your trial offer is incredibly generous, Karli because it’s true. With something like this, you have to try it. For a lot of people being concerned about price, myself included, I’m passionate about this but I certainly get caught up in the price point when it comes to buying it. A lot of the CBD that I’ve tried has been products that I’ve been given by brands, which to Jason’s point, I’m privileged in that. Because of that, I’ve also had a lot of bad CBD products. Even for me, that gets me feeling hesitant. That’s my long-winded answer in terms of my experience. 

I’m experimenting with a combination of CBD and Melatonin for sleep. I’m curious how you feel about that, Karli? Especially when it comes to Melatonin, I’ve seen many CBD products positioned for sleep specifically, I feel unsure. I find myself going, “I don’t know if I want to be taking Melatonin or I should be.” I’m curious about it so I’m trying it out. With what you’ve shared about CBN, I’m recognizing that I’m ignorant about that. I had no idea that CBN is great. It makes me wonder why a lot of brands still position CBD as a sleep product versus CBN. 

We did a survey of all of our customers and over 60% of them said that they’re taking CBD for insomnia and said that it had improved their sleep. They’re either sleeping through the night for the first time, getting to sleep or staying asleep longer. I do think that CBD does absolutely, from our customer’s feedback, help them get to sleep and stay asleep. Also, in that survey, our customers indicated that they wanted a specific formulation for sleep. They wanted CBD plus other herbs. 

That’s what took us down this path of researching like, “Should we add melatonin to our products or some other sleep aid?” When we started researching that was when we started understanding the value of CBN. We take a purist approach because cannabinoids are powerful. A lot of people already have their supplement routines, so they can choose to mix things if they want. It’s hard to explain what CBD is and what dose to take. With CBN, we’re like, “Why even add more confusion with melatonin?” We launched our CBN product in September 2020. It’s one of our newest products. It very quickly became our top-selling product. When we did a recent survey, over 75% of our customers said it had improved their sleep taking CBN.  

THC and CBD actually work synergistically together. They're actually really important together to have a more effective product. Share on X

First of all, CBD doesn’t work for everyone. Not everyone responds to it. Let’s be honest about that. We had 25% of people say it didn’t but 75% saying that they got better sleep was pretty amazing to me. As we’re getting the reviews coming in, a lot of people are saying, “I used to take melatonin. It left me groggy in the morning. I did not like that but now that I’m taking CBN, I’m getting to sleep, staying asleep and I can wake up in the morning without the grogginess.” 

A lot of companies add melatonin to their products so that they can legally make health claims or legally make claims about sleep on their packaging. That’s a lot of the motivation behind adding other herbs but we are purists and we want it to be straight. Our CDN product does have our full-spectrum CBD extract in it. We add CBN isolate, which is just that cannabinoids. We’re spiking our full-spectrum CBD oil and adding CBN to give it an extra sedative effect. You’re still taking CBD, which clearly was helping our customers with sleep and adding an extra sleepy agent to make it even more powerful. 

I’ve got a lot of clarity in CBN, which I’m excited to intentionally take that for sleep. Do you recommend taking it before you go to bed? Is there a certain time to take it? 

I’d say about 20 to 30 minutes before bed. It’d be winding down. Also, make sure you have healthy before bed practices, which I do not practice what I preach. Maybe put your phone away, do something that doesn’t have a screen, read a book, whatever it takes you to relax at night. Brush your teeth, make it a part of that routine but take it when you’re getting ready for bed. Don’t take it before dinner or in the morning. It is sedating. 

What about CBG? I don’t think we’ve touched upon that yet. I’m also unclear about when and why I should take that. 

CBG is interesting. It’s exciting because CBG is called the mother cannabinoid. All other cannabinoids come from CBG. CBG is, if you can imagine it, at the top of the tree, and THC, CBD and CBN, they all come up from CBG. It’s the mother cannabinoid and the plant naturally creates it. It’s a little bit different from CBN since CBN is a degraded THC. The plant naturally produces CBG like it naturally produces CBD. 

In our crop, we have specific plants that are CBG plants. Like you would have a plant that grows a yellow squash and a plant that grows green squash. These are bred to have different characteristics. Until recently did a crop that was majority CBG was recently bred. We were one of the first growers to be able to grow that, which is why you haven’t heard of it and it’s not out there too much. There are only many seeds of this plant that has been not genetically modified but naturally bred to create CBG. I don’t know exactly how they did this. We do have a whole webinar with our seed breeders who are geniuses in their own right but they somehow stop the plant from going through what they call a puberty stage that makes it convert into the other cannabinoids. 

CBG, though, from what we have found and this is from our own experience, there is no clinical research on this. CBG is energizing. I always call it liquid Adderall but it’s better than Adderall that you try in college to crash study or pull an all-nighter. I always felt like crap from that. To me, it’s more of mental clarity, sustained focus. Call it like a calm focus. It quiets down your brain and your tasks. When I have a task list in front of me, my task list is never-ending, it will never end and it’s overwhelming. There are some days where the things that you have to do, you don’t want to do. “This work, I don’t even know how I’m going to get through it.” 

What we have found and our customers have repeated back to us is that CBG has helped them get through those tough workdays. Especially with anxiety, coffee sometimes makes my anxiety worse especially if I have too much you get those heart palpitations and you don’t feel good and you’re getting coffee sweats. For me, I still drink coffee in the morning because I love coffee. I tried to cut it out of my routine but I failed. I need my coffee.  

My cofounder and I used to go get coffee every afternoon and that’s maybe a little bit too much. What I have done instead of coffee or I’ll get a decaf coffee and then I’ll take the CBG. I have focus and energy but without all the jitters. We launched CBG at the same time that we launched our CDN and have also become one of our top sellers. We’ve had some incredible feedback on that one as well. Worth a try if you’re an anxious person, you have panic attacks, anxiety but you need a natural energy source. CBG has been interesting for that. 

That sounds right up my alley, Karli. You got me excited about cannabinoids on a level that I didn’t know existed. I hope our readers are feeling the same way too. I’m excited for you to give the special trial, which is can go to our website, and click on the podcast section.  

Nobody has explained CBG to me. It sounds like the perfect thing. This ties back into what I said earlier about how important it is to talk about these things openly. They’re confusing but there’s also not enough people diving in. Karli, I’m impressed with your knowledge and passion for this. Your transparency not just as a company but as a human being about where you’re at in life. It’s more relatable. It draws me in because you don’t sound like someone who’s got it all figured out and is perfect. That can be so intimidating. The fact that you’re still figuring this out yourself, it draws me in to want to go along the journey with you because I feel like we’re at a similar level. I’m grateful for that. 

For me, it’s important to be transparent about my journey. We have a private Facebook group that you can find through our website where I am updating people about what’s going on with my antidepressants, the CBN, the CBD and my doses, which can be taxing sometimes. Sometimes it’s personal you don’t feel like sharing. I also know that my story is helping people and not only am I in that group sharing but we also have 1,000 people in that group sharing their own experiences with CBD. Asking questions, finding answers, sharing research. We’re also new to this. There is limited research out there because this plan has been stigmatized for so long but the research is coming, which is exciting. 

We’re hearing new things every day. There’s new research every day. We have a community where we can share that and people can share their stories. A lot of people are very skeptical about CBD because of its meteoric rise. It got trendy and it was in everything. Bed Bath and Beyond were selling CBD-infused memory foam pillows at one point. There is CBD-infused clothing. There is a lot of ridiculous stuff at the height of the CBD trend. 

In reality, what it comes down to is that people use our products every single day, they’ve come to rely on our products. We’re willing to do this free trial for you guys. Because when our customers buy from us, they don’t buy once, we’re starting to see 10, 20 and 30 orders. We have a subscription on our website. When you do get this offer, you’ll be getting your first delivery of a subscription-free. You have a subscription that you can choose every 2, 4 or 8 weeks and have this delivered to you monthly because each bottle lasts about a month or whatever frequency you decide. 

People use this product, it becomes a part of their life and it becomes something that they’re using routinely. We believe in our product so much that we’re like, “We’ll give it away. Try it once.” If you’re skeptical and you don’t want to drop the $45 to try it, this is your chance to give it a test. We believe in it that much that we’re trying it for a month and see how you feel. If you feel better, we know that you’ll come back because a large majority of our customers do come back for a 2nd, 3rd and 10th bottle. It becomes something that’s important in their routines.  

When you dial in your dose, your dose is less than a cup of coffee a day. If you’re buying coffee, it’s $1.50 or $2 a day for a dose. It even gets cheaper as you go up in potency. To me, I asked myself, “Is it worth it to not feel anxious for $2 a day.” When I was depressed and having those panic packs, I would have done anything to feel better. The fact that our customers are not feeling 100% better but to have some relief is worth it for them. They tell us that over and over again. 

This is a good opportunity for the skeptics out there to try it. If you’re still skeptical, you can go on our website and read over 1,000 5-star reviews from our customers. If you’re even more skeptical after that, you can join our Facebook group and interact with our community. We do education every single month and we do live. There’s a lot of stuff in there where we deep dive into these topics about CBN and CBG. I did a Live about seasonal affective disorder. You can find us in the Facebook group, you can find us on YouTube. We are making a ton of content because nobody’s talking about this in-depth. We have a heavy lift on education since our government has prevented us from doing any of this for so long. There’s a long way to go. We’re just in the infancy of this industry, which is exciting. There’s a lot to be discovered. 

Karli, as we approach the finish line to this episode, I have one very last important question for you. Can you cook with it? 

One of our best customers here in Binghamton is a diner that makes CBD cupcakes. However, CBD does burn off. I don’t remember what temperature it is, I’ll have to look at it. They put the CBD in the frosting since you’re not baking the frosting, that’s their way of getting CBD into the cupcake. I would not recommend putting it overheat as you can cook off the cannabinoids and terpenes but you could add it to a smoothie or food. People make pot brownies and cook with them. You can, it’s not the most effective way to take it but it can be fun to mess around in the kitchen. You can make yourself some gummies. You can experiment but we usually recommend the most effective way to take CBD is right under your tongue, hold it for a few seconds, absorb it sublingually. That’s how you’re going to get the most bang for your buck and feel an effect.  

When you’re ingesting it and an edible, for example, in a brownie. It’s then going into your digestive system into your stomach where you’re not absorbing it as quickly. It’s being broken down by your stomach acid. You’re wasting it a little bit. I don’t necessarily recommend baking with it. If you can, if you don’t mind the taste, it tastes like hemp and it tastes like cannabis, earthy, grassy or however you want to say it, I would take it under the tongue. If that is too much for you, we do have soft gels too. You can take it in capsule form. That’s also a good way to take it. 

I appreciate that and also appreciate you making me hungry for cupcakes. I’m obsessing. Also, this does bring up a cool business idea. My mom Susan lives in Detroit, is an incredible baker and I feel like I want to get a bottle of your CBD and be like, “Mom, you know what to do.” Thank you for the inspiration. The inspiration in general with everything you shared. You bringing your personal story and coloring what motivated you to start Head & Heal and why you keep going with this, it’s deeply moving on an emotional level. 

I know our readers have deeply connected with you, Karli because many people who follow this show are dancing with depression, mental health issues. Everything you’re doing with Head & Heal is a tremendous gesture of allyship. You’re an entrepreneur running a business, busting your bonds as a CEO. On a higher level, I feel like this is a deep level of allyship in supporting people with their health journey. That’s what we’re all about. I can’t extend enough gratitude for everything you shared, the education, the background, your personal story.  

MGU 249  Karli Miller-Hornick | Using Cannabinoids

Using Cannabinoids: If you are a conscious consumer of CBD, first of all, you should always be looking for lab results.


This was a deep, lush, rewarding episode with you. To the readers out there, if you are vibing with our beautiful sponsor Karli of Head & Heal, we do have that great offer for you. It’s at Get your bottle of Head & Heal CBD. You just pay for the shipping. You’re going to have an amazing bubbly bath experience like I did. It’s an incredibly high vibe product. I can’t recommend it enough for myself, for the fur babies. 

Also, Karli, our readers know I’ve been recovering from a motorcycle accident for months and the lavender-scented lotion that I have been using has been a godsend for my recovery from surgery. and you can experience their incredible products. Karli, it’s been an absolute pleasure sharing your knowledge, your story, your wisdom. That website and everything to find Head & Heal, including their Facebook group, social media will be in the show notes at Everything you need to get yourself on this beautiful CBD train with Head & Heal. Karli, thank you so much for spending time with us. 

Thank you for having me. This is truly a full-circle moment. I never thought I would be sitting in this chair. For those of you reading who are struggling with depression, I’ve been there. I thought that there was no hope. I thought there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I made it through. I’m on the other side now. I am glad that I am. I can sit here and hope that you hear me that if you’re feeling the hopeless darkness that I felt, things will get better. There is hope. 

You will make it through, reach out for help. Ask for help, get the help you need and explore your options when it comes to therapy. If it’s pharmaceuticals, if it’s CBD, find a way out. It can be extremely frustrating to go through all of that but it’s worth it. I’m happy that I chose to stay here on this planet. I’m thankful every day and grateful for the experience that I have built this company, providing my community with jobs. I’m here to say that I survived and I can share my story with all of you. Jason and Whitney, thank you for having me on and giving me the opportunity to do this. 


Important links


About Karli Miller-Hornick

MGU 249  Karli Miller-Hornick | Using CannabinoidsDepression, panic attacks, and anxiety are all very familiar to Karli Miller-Hornick. In 2019, Karli was in a deep depression and finally admitted herself to the hospital for suicidal ideation out of fear that she was going to take her own life. It was a long journey for her to recover, but now considers herself a survivor.

From the darkness, she’s built her organic hemp company Head & Heal to help others struggling with mental health find hope again. Her mission is to destigmatize mental health and cannabis through education.

CBD has been a crucial element to her recovery and today she’ll be sharing with us her journey from hopelessness to building a multi-million dollar company that supports her community.


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