Why can’t we all just get along? We often hear the phrase “just like kids in a sandbox,” where you meet someone new, and in five minutes, you feel like you’ve been best friends forever. But sadly, circumstances in our lives make us forget who we were and how we were when we were young. And worst is when we are haunted by our childhood experiences, leading us to withdraw from society and detach ourselves from people who can truly be our best friends.
We blame our differences for how we treat each other, blame the government for our misfortune, and even blame the environment for our health issues. But as we walk through life, how often do we look in the mirror? What can we do to change our circumstances? How do we play a role in how others perceive us? And how often did we acknowledge others and empathize with what they are going through?
In this episode, Charles Mitchell, CEO and co-founder of All About People, Inc., and Dr. Daryl L. Jones, Founder and President of the E-5 Foundation, discuss why human flourishing is more critical to happiness and how to convert our circumstances and empower others despite differences. They then dive deep into the difference between acknowledgment and empathy and how upbringing, personal experiences and circumstances, history, cultural differences, and outlook play into the way we interact, react, and translate to others.
Listen to the podcast here
The Things We Can’t Afford To Accept With Charles Mitchell And Dr. Daryl L. Jones
I was saying how I have so many directions to go in with my two wonderful guests, Charles and Daryl. It’s a little hard to choose where to start but I’m going to lean toward something I feel most curious about at this moment, which is the difference between acknowledgment and empathy because when I read this line in an email as we were setting up, I found myself wondering, “What does that mean? I don’t know if I’ve ever pondered that before.” What is the difference between the two and why does it matter?
When I think about acknowledgment from my view, I’ll give you an example. You may tell me something about how are you feeling at the moment like, “I’m feeling sad.” If I acknowledge it, I say to myself, “Whitney is not feeling her best. She’s not in the place where she liked to be. She’s feeling sad.” That’s a fact. If I have empathy for that, hear that and I’ll go, “I’m feeling what she’s feeling. I’m sitting in her shoes. I’m accepting that how she feels is not where she would like to be,” that allows me to connect with her in a way where I’m truly empathetic to what’s going on with her and her world. The connection where I can feel that on your behalf versus I hear you but there’s no connection to it.
Do you feel like we have an issue where more people are leaning towards the acknowledgment than the empathetic side or we do have a good amount of empathy as a society?
Neither, in my opinion. I don’t think that we’re acknowledging it because we are quick to turn off our sensitivities about anything that happens. We don’t view facts as facts anymore. We view things through the lens that we choose to see or hear them. If you can’t get to acknowledgment there, there’s no way you ever get empathy.
I agree with Charles. I don’t want to speak in terms of monoliths or society but in large part, we become more dismissive. I don’t think there is a large acknowledgment that leads to empathy. I look at them as stair-step. We are so busy canceling and dismissing but I’m not sure we’re working towards acknowledging the way a society should be. There are always exceptions but in a large part.
Do you think we’re still heading in the opposite direction or can we swing around and start creating more acknowledgment? If so, how do we get there? Do we have to go through a phase in the opposite direction first before we change course?
Two things can be true. We can always decide to move in a different direction but what that requires is not necessarily what a large part of society is thirsting for. All of the movements to emotional reactions are very obvious. We don’t need to start calling names or political parties. We can see it happening every single day. My question becomes who or what would be the catalyst for any shift. Thinking and talking about it isn’t enough. It has to be done. That takes bravery, courage and taking the eye off the ball of something else and shifting it to this oftentimes. Not a lot of us have the capacity to do that.
That ties into something else you’re passionate about, which is why human flourishing is more critical than happiness. As you’re sharing this, I’m thinking, “Does creating more empathy lead to the type of human flourishing that the two of you are examining and hoping for?”We are quick to turn off our sensitivities. Click To Tweet
Empathy isn’t the first thing that comes to mind when I think about human flourishing, honestly. I look at it through the lens of spirituality, emotional stability and management, physical health and financial health. These things are first and foremost when it comes to human flourishing, in the distinction between that and happiness.
Happiness is a temporary mindset. If you’re a drug addict, you can find happiness, especially when you get that fixed but you’re not flourishing by any sense of the word. Flourishing is self-optimization and self-actualization. When I think about empathy as it relates to that, that’s not one of the first characteristics that come to mind for me.
First and foremost, it has to do with internal realization and something you talked about with one of your past guests, Jovanka when you talked about a colonized mindset. It’s escaping a colonized mindset and that happens at the individual level. When we talk about that, I don’t go to empathy. I’m not saying it’s not important but that’s not where my head goes initially.
To jump in, we’re a long way from empathy. When I think about human flourishing, it’s more along the lines of well-being. What are the things that we can achieve in life or do for a purpose, meaning and social interactions that are positive and uplifting? Having this overall satisfaction with where we are in life, sometimes means having access to certain things as resources. Sometimes, it’s the ability to have a roof over your head. It can be as simple or as complex as individuals’ needs for how they like to live life or how they feel like their lives need to go.
You have to have that basic achievement of personal wellbeing. Like Maslow’s hierarchy, you take care of yourself first. Once you’re able to have that self-revelation around what that means for you, then hopefully that can lead to empathy for others. You have to begin with what it takes for you to achieve some level of flourishing that allows you to see other people in a different light.
It’s interesting in the context of how we’re not quite going towards empathy. I wonder, are we not because the average person doesn’t feel like they’re flourishing? I’m also curious, is flourishing a state of mind or a circumstance? What could feel like flourishing to one person may not feel like that to another.
Certain people may never feel satisfied with what they have. They always want more. Is that part of how hard it is to get to a place of empathy for others because we can’t even fully empathize with ourselves? We’re always feeling bad about ourselves. We’re beating ourselves up. I’m speaking very general terms. It’s not everybody but it seems to me that a lot of people are struggling with self-hatred, loathing and all these intense emotions. Maybe that does explain why empathy is so tough.
We’re probably going to get controversial. A lot of White people are. Maybe they should be. If you’re a Black person or a Black youth and you’re decolonizing your mindset, empathy isn’t the first trait to get you there. It’s self-respect, self-actualization and confidence. It’s those things that tend to be paramount in decolonizing the way you think knowing nothing about Africa, knowing nothing but Christianity.
Empathy tends to enter into play for someone oftentimes who’s operated in privilege. I’m not saying you can’t be empathetic when you’re decolonizing your mindset but the importance of empathy often lies with those who look like you. Maybe it should be important to you. I’m not so sure when we’re talking about folks that maybe look like or grew up like Charles and me. That characteristic is something that’s pounded into us versus you got to get ready to take on the world and get busted.
There’s a prioritization. Taking care of yourself is surviving. In a lot of instances, it’s the priority. You’re trying to figure out how you move through this world and do this life where your casualties are as few as possible because otherwise, you can find yourself in situations that a lot of people, particularly a lot of Black men, where would have never envisioned that this is where life would take them at the end of the day. It’s all about certain circumstances and situations.
All these poundings come into your brain when you’re a young child about what life will be like for you and what you have to anticipate. If it’s not provided in the right setting, it can be counterproductive. Daryl and I have the opportunity to have loving family members in our lives who move us along in a direction that helped us to thrive and become our best selves or at least have a path to start to look for what we could become.
It’s all in there. You’re thinking about yourself. It’s not until you feel like you’ve gotten to a place where you can focus on what things to do for others. Who knows what that takes? It wasn’t always this way where I wanted to have empathy and do other things for people that I could help support and build what they wanted their futures to look like. It took a long while to get there. It’s just a different path.
It’s enlightening to hear this because it also goes to show the different mentality that I may have as a White woman where I felt like I was raised as a people pleaser. It was like, “Think about others before you think about yourself.” It’s always about prioritizing somebody else. I wonder sometimes like, “Did I get trained into thinking that that’s the way forward or to success?” If I’m understanding correctly, are you saying that you were raised differently to put yourself 1st and others 2nd or put yourself 1st and then maybe others? Were there differences like that?
When I have that view, it’s about taking care of yourself, not to the detriment of others.
Also, to not get preoccupied with being concerned about how someone feels who may not have their best interest at heart. That’s what I’m saying. It’s oftentimes a guessing game when you’re a kid. I’ve had teachers who are the most racist people you’ve never wanted to come across. They made it a point when I was in fourth grade to be very clear that I was different from all the White kids in the class. Why would I be preoccupied with empathy? The White kids in the class can afford to do that. May I ask, were you raised with both parents?
Yes.If we can't get to acknowledgment, we can't get to empathy. Click To Tweet
At the end of the day, you probably felt like dad was at home and may take care of things. Your empathy was okay. You could get a little preoccupied with that. I’m not saying that there are other dangers to that. I didn’t have that luxury. I’ll be honest with you, some of my best coaches and teachers, I’m not sure how much empathy they have for me. I don’t know and I didn’t care. Empathy tends to be paramount and critical for those who are privileged enough to prioritize it.
I want to tack on to what DJ shared when he talked about coaches and teachers. If I can speculate for a moment and I’m making broad sweeping speculation but if there wasn’t empathy there, it wasn’t that they didn’t care about what happened to him at the end of the day. It was about not having the luxury of being preoccupied with it.
In the moment, “Here’s what he needs to know. Here’s what information I need to provide him to get to this next step and stage in life and for him to be safe and be able to follow a path that allows him to thrive. I can’t get emotional about what that is. I have to give it to him in its raw form. Move him along for his good.” It doesn’t mean that there’s no caring involved. It means that the empathy of he didn’t like the way it was shared or if he felt bad about it, we don’t necessarily focus on that at that moment. We have to focus on the things we need to know to move along in life and thrive.
It’s inevitably part of your journey. I’ll speak specifically about being a young Black kid who at times was in projects. It’s handling situations where you aren’t treated with empathy. You need to be very equipped for that. The focus on empathy is for a subset of society who is probably still harboring some guilt. I’m not saying empathy doesn’t have a purpose and isn’t a muscle we should all be building but it’s all about prioritization. I’m not saying all Black kids have it bad and all that, I just know my journey. It was filled with love but it also had its challenges. Empathy wasn’t something we talked about at the dinner table.
When I think about my upbringing, my parents have done a ton for me in life and have loved and supported me in so many ways but empathy wasn’t this great big conversation. I learned about empathy in the last several years through my exploration of being more conscious, aware and knowing that life is bigger than my little world and what impact I want to have on others.
Empathy wasn’t a part of the conversation growing up in any way. It doesn’t minimize love and care. It’s just a different set of circumstances that my folks were aware of that I would encounter that I couldn’t afford to get wrapped up in this trap of empathy or these feelings that you know others don’t have for you.
Not to say that we aren’t caring people, we do very much so. Love is very simple. It’s wanting what’s best for someone. Empathy to me takes on other characteristics. I try to operate with love regardless and I was raised to do that specifically. Empathy, I couldn’t even tell you when I first heard that word. I don’t use it a lot now. I’ve taught in colleges and I’ve had teams of 300. Charles owns his company. When I think about critical competencies, I don’t know where those stacks are. Some old employees may come back and say, “That’s why,” but it doesn’t mean I don’t love you but we got a job to do.
First of all, this leads to a lot of different thoughts for me because I often reflect on coaching and education in general as you two touched upon racism that I am learning more about, especially in health and wellness. The history of racism there is disturbing to me. I don’t want to take part in it as much as I can’t anymore. When you’re saying things like this, I’m looking at these things that I’ve been taught over and over again. To step away and realize that not everybody is being taught that way but that also might not be a priority for everyone.
That’s an issue in the coaching world from my perspective. I’m curious about your perspectives on how a lack of awareness of different cultures and our differences in our circumstances. When I look at the coaching industry, I feel like a lot of it is a one-size-fits-all approach. It seems like a lot of the big coaches are out there from what I’m witnessing and I’m curious if you see it differently.
I see a lot of White men and then young White women becoming coaches in various fields. I wonder how much of their whiteness is impacting the things that they’re teaching and encouraging people and then the ripple effect that has on everybody else who keeps hearing these same messages reiterated over and over again. Do you see it that way or do you witness it differently?
These experiences are very different for different people. First of all, it bleeds into everything quite frankly, beyond coaching, opportunities in life or whatever you want to call it but the way you show up or the opportunity that you have to show up is very different. You can have a very different conversation. People hear you very differently.
All of these things impact someone’s ability to be effective or successful in this line. Part of it is how you translate to others when you share your story, perspectives, background or experience and all those things that shape others and hopefully a way to help them be better, people take it differently depending on who it comes from.
Coaching and wellness are maybe two different things but there are a lot of White women who have taken the lead in the wellness movement. My question is always, “How much do you know about Black people? How do you know what well looks like for them?” That’s where my question starts because otherwise, we’re moving into what I call a public school system that doesn’t want to acknowledge, understand and address certain things.
Honestly, in my coaching, consulting and teaching, I have my formula. I don’t get too intoxicated by what anybody else is doing unless it somehow intercedes with what I’m doing. I do think there are a lot of questions as it relates to wellness and coaching, specifically as it relates to demographics and psychographics.
What about in terms of business coaching? Do you see similar issues there? For example, a lot of the messaging I was taught came from White men when I was studying entrepreneurship and business marketing. Also, White women but it seemed like their mentors were White men. As I step back and try to examine how much is this shaped by their whiteness, I see a lot of people saying, “If you do this, you’ll get that. If you follow these steps, you’re going to get this result.” I’m not so sure that’s true because people are coming from different circumstances and you have to take that into consideration, in my opinion.
I’m curious if you agree. We have to look at the privilege, the financial circumstances, the limitations and the lack of resources that some people have. It’s not always a race issue but I certainly think that there are patterns there. When it’s a group of White people saying, “I did this. You should be able to as well,” it also comes down to this mentality that if it doesn’t work for you, then you’re the failure.Happiness is a temporary mindset. Click To Tweet
First of all, it was a much bigger conversation when we started thinking about systemic racism. You can look at every field like education, housing and employment. Our opportunities in a lot of respects haven’t been the same because the opportunities haven’t been the same. Those are because it’s if you can’t have a decent education, if that’s not ground level one and you can’t have access to a roof over your head like housing that is local, housing that doesn’t require you to travel 30 to 45 minutes to get to school or work and then the other side of that coin is access to quality healthcare and social determinants of health.
All these things impact the ability to have these notions of, “I want to be an entrepreneur. I have this entrepreneurial experience that I can pass down to others and be of help.” It’s the pond of people who are able to do that, who looks like DJ and I who had these experiences. Don’t get me wrong, you’ve got a lot of successful people of color that do well in business and certainly are able to hold their in terms of what they’ve accomplished but when it comes time to talk about how we translate that to others who look like us and to be able to help, there’s not many in the field.
DJ is one of the few that I know who brings a strong track record, where what he’s talking about, he has lived. The experience base that he can share comes from an authentic place and true leadership. Not many people like that. Therefore, you do only have these other models of White women and men to look to. My question for those folks all the time is, “If you want to impact another audience, how much are you willing to understand about that audience?”
To DJ’s point and his question is, “How much do you know about this group? How much have you studied? How much time have you taken to understand the root cause of where people sit and what historical elements have created it? What are those elements that impact those people so that when you are interacting, you have a grounding that is not based upon the things that you hear or see or your perceptions of what society tells you?”
There are critical concepts that aren’t necessarily related to the construct of race. Sense-making is a concept that precedes decision-making. Sense-making is a process we all go through. It can be 2 seconds or 2 days to create paradigms and perspectives that allow us to make decisions. You learning that from White men may not have implications beyond the fact, process and concept.
When it comes to something like religion, it’s a whole new ball game. Not understanding the roots of Christianity and the trail back to Africa is very critical for Black people. Maybe not so much for others but it goes back to the colonization of the mindset that you focused on in a prior episode that I thought was interesting. It has a lot of tentacles that we can’t get to in an hour.
That’s when it becomes critical when we talk about these institutions that become “fact.” I’ll share a quick story with you and it’s very relevant. Charles and I were at dinner. We were with a couple and they were a White male and a White female. She spent a lot of time talking about how important Christianity was to her and she based everything on Christianity that she did in her life. I don’t necessarily believe that but that’s what she said.
For her race, it didn’t matter. It’s okay that you believe that and you believe in Adam and Eve. What do you think they look like? What do they have to look like if I exist and Charles exists? They can’t look like you because you can never get that from that. Through processes, you can get your skin tone from mine. It can happen.
My point is as opposed to accepting that within the paradigm that she was operating in, now it may be, “Do I believe in Christianity?” I don’t know what she went home with. I haven’t talked to her since then but the whole paradigm was messed up. These are the things that we can’t afford to accept and say, “We want to be aware, preach wellness, teach and help.” It has to go back that far.
Otherwise, you continue to bury your head in the sand because you’re not willing to accept the factual prescription in that. If you accepted the way it is, it changes everything you’ve ever believed. If you accept it, then that’s the opportunity to start believing, thinking different things and having a different perspective about others and the way you see and perceive the world. If you’re not, there’s no way to get there. If you’re not willing to face history in a way that is reflective and a lot of ways instructive, then there’s no point. If you want to talk about getting empathy, the road is closed.
For the record, when we talk about Christianity for me, it’s one of the greatest stories ever told. If we want to understand its roots and history of it, we got to go much further back to the purveyors of Christianity have gone.
This has me thinking about all these messages and the things that we take as truth and factual. The impact that the repeated messages we get, whether that’s in a religious setting growing up, you have to examine like, “Who are the other people there with you at church? Who are the other people in your classroom when you were a child? How were they being treated? Who were your teachers?” I do have to start to walk backwards through my life and examine, “Where did these messages come from? Who was saying them to me? Where did I learn them? What else am I not seeing?”
The more I’ve dug into it, I feel like I missed out on so many angles of life and different types of people. I’ve had to continue to walk outside of that and be purposeful in that. It’s revealing a lot of ignorance within myself that I’m comfortable acknowledging but I’m so grateful for conversations like this that point out that ignorance because it would never have occurred to me that people don’t prioritize empathy.
They’re even conditioned to. For you, it sounds like it was conditioning. The question becomes why. As a White woman, why are you conditioned to be empathetic and to whom? Who did that serve? We probably know the answer to that.
I would love to know who you think that serves.
I would have to ask who’s in your circle, who’s your partner and how homogenous is that. All of those questions, you would have to answer. We can extend that to Christianity. There was a purpose in the preaching of Christianity, especially in wanting people of African descent to adopt it. A lot of that had to do with oppression. This is not me being a pro, anti or whatever Christianity.Love is simple. It's wanting what's best for someone. Click To Tweet
It was a means to accept.
No discussion of it. When the symbolism came into play, you saw how that manifested. Charles and I talked about this. I grew up in an AME, a Methodist church and there was not one Black symbol related to God, whether it was angels or Jesus. None of it. There are a lot of Black folks in there. What are we doing? Some deep things.
There are two things. 1) How can we convert our circumstances and, 2) How can we empower each other despite our differences? Do you think our circumstances come from our differences or do differences create our circumstances? Either way, can we convert or change them? How can we help each other do that?
I’ll say it’s both. Both happened. I don’t think it’s an either/or. Two things can be true and both happened. Differences can lead to circumstances. Circumstances can lead to differences but the question is always, “At the end of the day, to me, who has decision rights on what these differences and circumstances mean?” If we take it to social justice or not, we can start to see how all of that plays out but it happens within both dimensions.
I don’t know if I can argue with that. The one thing I do think that’s a phenomenon is the differences create the opportunity for circumstances to not be as they likely should. When you’re starting from a different place, all your perspectives are not in the same lane. How you behave or treat others, all those things are determined by your perspectives on difference, which creates that whole dynamic, that creates a different set of circumstances for others. I do think that who has the leverage in that makes a big difference.
That also leads back to the initial topic of acknowledgment. Do you feel like it’s helpful to acknowledge differences? I feel like some people don’t want to acknowledge the difference. They don’t want to treat someone differently. They want to create equality and inclusivity. Do you feel like differences need to be acknowledged to create inclusivity inequality or should we try to treat everybody the same, even if they aren’t?
I worked in and consulted for cultures where I wouldn’t want to be treated like anybody in that culture. I’m not looking for equality or inclusion. What I would say is with differences, often comes uniqueness and unique forms of talent. When someone says, “I don’t see color,” first of all, we know it as a lie. Second of all, maybe you should and if you don’t understand the concept of melanin, what it is and how important it is, then you’ll probably never understand me. That’s also extremely deep.
The diverse world has fallen victim to a lot of other worlds and industries where the face of it has become white again. Whether that’s the teachings, the students or who are being served by it. I’m on a different journey as it relates to diversity, even in my practice. Less and less am I concerned about trying to convince versus empower. I’m talking about empowering folks who need to be empowered, not those who are in power.
I’ve never been one who thought that you treat people the same. Think about it, I have three kids and they’re all very different. You have to treat them differently based upon their set of unique needs and what’s unique about them as people. I have to teach them or show them what life looks like for them on their terms, not on your brother’s or sister’s terms but for that unique individual.
That’s how we have to approach everyone. We have to approach people from a perspective of you want to take people from where they are in the moment and then let’s go from there. Where do we need to go? What needs to happen? How do we help? How do we impact you in a way that allows you to thrive, flourish and have the best life possible for your wellbeing and life satisfaction? That’s where I look at it from.
If you do that, you take care of all the other things. You take care of what it means to be different or have a different race. DJ’s point is about seeing color. If you don’t see me, you don’t see my uniqueness about what it is that I need in life and what’s important to me in life but if you start with that basic core element of who I am as a person, an individual and what my unique needs are, that may be very similar to DJ or be very different. Let’s start there.
I like that too. I’m not a fan of that one-size-fits-all. That’s also a helpful thing for me to reflect on after this conversation because I have felt like, “We got to treat everybody equally.” I kept hearing about equality my whole life. I felt like this feels good and right but the more I think about it, it doesn’t make sense because if we treat everyone the same, then what if the way that they’re being treated doesn’t work for them?
Here’s the distinction that I want to call out. Equality in the broadest sense of the word is extremely important because Black folks weren’t granted that. There’s always been this fight for a baseline level of respect that White folks got. Whether that was from a legal or constitutional perspective, whatever it is, equality is very important. When we start to talk about it in more of a microcosm to the extent that we make assumptions about where people are and we’ll all start from the same point on the track, “Your color doesn’t matter.” Sometimes, it’s like, “It’s what you can’t learn from me.” That’s where it starts to get dangerous.
Thank you for that. The way that the two of you articulate this is helpful and gives me so much to reflect upon. I feel like this is a teaser for your show. These subject matters are deep and we’re digging into them but that does lead us to a great opportunity to encourage readers who want to know more from the two of you to go to your show. What would you say are the overarching topics you cover? I imagine similar to this and these things are addressed regularly on your show.
Race, business, culture, human wellness, human flourishing, mental wellness and entrepreneurship. We cover it all. We do it through fascinating stories and journeys about successful people and some who have failed. I don’t mean failed in terms of never being seen again but they learned from not winning. We try to do it all.If you're not willing to face history in a way that is reflective, then the road is closed to empathy. Click To Tweet
Charles and I are different human beings but we have a common thread that has allowed us to birth something critical to both of us as individuals and as a team and then from a broader set of society. I couldn’t be happy about the path we were on. You can’t get to everything in a show but we’re trying to.
It’s the richness of the stories that we get to embark on with these conversations with the guests on our show. I never failed to learn something which fills me up because I’m one person who loves learning. I consider myself to be a lifelong learner. It’s hearing people’s stories and then weaving those into the dialogue of the day around things that are important to us. Typically, we somehow come into these dialogues around those pillars that DJ mentioned.
They’re interwoven into the conversation because we all experienced them. We all are a part of the culture. We’re all, in some ways, at least a lot of people that are on the show are connected to the business. We all have an occupation of some sort, no matter what it is that we do, which leads into the thread around the business.
As we look at the other things that are important to us, those things are illuminated and those conversations become so rich. For me, as I think about where I am in my life is one of the things that I’ve truly valued and am so grateful that DJ and I got the opportunity to meet and established this brotherhood thing is beyond a friendship. Also, to bring these conversations to a larger audience that is beyond the back patio at his house or my house. We have an opportunity to share with others and people like you.
Your format is wonderful, Whitney. I had the opportunity to read several of your episodes.
It’s very inspiring.
I appreciate that. Thank you for being here. I love the show name, The Conscious Vibe that you picked. It piques my interest. After speaking with you, I’m so hooked. I need more.
We’ll have to have you on the show. Is that what I’m hearing?
Count me in for that but also count me in as a listener because of the way that the two of you articulate and flow with each other and bring on guests that cover all these different topics that are so important. It’s all about raising perspective and learning. Similarly, I am a sucker for information and getting it from different sources has become a bigger aim of mine.
As I look at the sources of information I’ve had in the past, I realized a big point that was brought up that it’s so crucial to hear from different perspectives and broaden these sources because if you don’t understand the history and how people are impacted differently, you’re cutting people out of the information you’re sharing. You can only share what you know to a certain extent.
You’re oftentimes sharing what you think you know.
To end where we started, if you don’t have any of those things, it’s hard to have any authentic empathy for anyone without that awareness and understanding.
Thank you for starting the dialogue. It’s to be continued perhaps on your show. I love your photos by the way. You both convey these great feelings for me. You two have the conscious vibe. You have a great vibe that feels very conscious.
- Charles Mitchell, Esquire and Daryl L. Jones
- Jovanka Ciares – Previous Episode
About Charles Mitchell
Charles Mitchell is no stranger to helping people, by way of his position as CEO at All About People, Inc., which has ranked among the top 500 African American owned companies, and the 3rd largest Minority owned company in the state of Arizona.
As well as through his various community endeavors through several nonprofit and for-profit boards, both on the local and national level.
About Daryl L. Jones
Daryl L. Jones owns and operates his own consulting firm, specializing in Organizational Development, DE&I, & Culture.
He held executive positions at Nike that spanned 20 years of his career, and philanthropically, he is Founder and President of the E-5 Foundation based in Chicago, Illinois, a non-profit entity focused on the transformation of Chicago’s underserved youth in critical areas of development.
Jones is passionate about racial justice, history, and cultural authenticity.
For those wanting to tune into a unique platform with multifarious voices, The Conscious Vibe beseeches conversations and outcomes to benefit the greater good of all people. Follow along with the conversation on LinkedIn.
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