MGU 134 | Burnt Out


With a lot of people talking about burnout, it seems like THE buzzword for 2020. And yet almost every single year towards the end of the year, we can’t wait for the year to get over because it was that bad. On today’s show, Jason Wrobel and Whitney Lauritsen take a closer look at burnout and share the ten signs of this condition and what you can do to combat it.

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How To Tell When You’re Burnt Out

I wanted to talk about burnout which feels like a big buzzword for 2020. I found myself struggling to figure out how to approach this topic because it almost feels cliché. It seems like a lot of people are talking about burnout and thus it’s been that trendy word. I also found myself wondering, does burnout have anything to do with 2020? Are we more aware of it? Why do we feel burned out in 2020?

I feel like this is a common feeling for me at the beginning of years. January tends to feel heavy which seems contradictory because you think you’re starting off fresh, but maybe it’s the pressure of a new year. All of these things that we want to accomplish that can lead me to feel a bit overwhelmed. I’ve talked about this before, but in case, the audience hasn’t known me to share this, at the beginning of 2020, I was yearning for more time and permission to slow down.

I feel like a lot of us got that in many ways through COVID, even though it sounds weird to say that because a lot of people changed in terms of their job’s situations. Whether they were losing their jobs or being furloughed or the hours are being cut back, or they had to get a different job because of all those circumstances. For at least a little bit of time, most people unless you were a first responder or somebody working in the medical field or some other job that was essential, it seemed to me like most people were in a position where they had “some extra time.”

With that extra time having to stay home, whether due to quarantine orders or to take care of somebody or whatever the circumstances it was, you’d think that maybe you’d feel less overwhelmed or burnt out. Since we were dealing with such a big change in the entire world, it almost felt like that time wasn’t what we would have thought it would be where there was a heaviness of COVID and all these fears going around and the uncertainty with something brand new.

Even if you felt like you had more time because you weren’t going to school or you weren’t going to job in person anymore, you were working remotely, your brain was filled up with new things that we’ve never had to think about before. There are plenty of people that circumstances maybe got even more overwhelming, whether their job required them to be at work more frequently to take care of people. For many parents, because their kids weren’t going to school and childcare changed or went away, or the things that they were used to having access to were temporarily paused.

I think about my parents because they used to have someone come and help clean the house once a week and they no longer have that woman in the house anymore because they were trying to be safe with COVID. Now, they have to clean the house. It’s like they had to take on more responsibility and a lot of parents were facing this with more responsibility for their children because they weren’t getting the support or their kids were in the house more often.

So much has shifted in 2020 in ways that A, we didn’t anticipate but B, it shifted our perspectives on life as a whole. That’s where some of this burnout comes from. I’m sitting here thinking, “Are we always going to be dealing with burnout? Is there something on the other side of it where we won’t feel burned out?” I’m not clear on that answer yet. I pulled up some articles that came into my inbox and this was from one email newsletter.

It has some tips that I want to go over now. I type the word burnout into my inbox and there are many emails I’ve received over the last few weeks about burnout from different people and a bunch throughout the rest of the year. This word burnout seems heavy right now. I’m not sure if it’s going to change at all. Is it going to change when COVID is over or are we going to go to a different stage of burnout, Jason? I’m curious about your perspectives before we dive into some of the perspectives from the writers of these articles I want to address.

It’s interesting that we’re covering this particular topic because I feel exhausted right now. I’ve been experiencing on and off bouts of insomnia. Even before we started this show, I was going through this roller coaster of months of insomnia and then sleeping well and months of insomnia and he’s back right now. We’ve talked about this in previous episodes, a lot about the hustle culture and trying to outwork everyone and being the hardest worker in the room and hustle or die and many of the contrapreneurs.

There are a lot of people who parrot the same rhetoric over and over again about hard work. Whitney and I dissected our feelings and our reflections on a lot of these mentalities, tactics, and tips that don’t seem to work all that well for some people. For the past years, if I look back on periods where I started to feel depleted, not just, “I’m a little bit tired.” It’s more than ten years. If I extended back to 2009 when I had my catering business with our mutual friend, Mike before he got into the solar business.

I remember many days running that catering business and on book tour or speaking appearances, doing social media, going to networking events, a lot of the things that we’ve highlighted as entrepreneurs, and the things we’ve done. I felt like there was this pressure to push through. “Don’t complain about being tired. Don’t complain about being exhausted. Don’t admit to anyone that you’re tired or feeling depleted. Push through.” It was this rhetoric that I bought into, “You’ve got to keep hustling. You’ve got to be the hardest worker in the room.”

MGU 134 | Burnt Out

Burnt Out: 2020 gave a slower pace of life. It’s allowed us to take a more critical, loving, and honest look at some of the ways that we’ve been living.


I remember people’s reactions when Elon Musk came out with his daily itinerary and how many hours he works and what he does every day, and people were like, “I’ve got to step up my game. I’ve got to match Elon.” I don’t want to match Elon because I think for a long time, what I’m saying is I ignored my body’s signals to rest and I ignored my body’s signals to take a break and make a good lunch for myself or take a nap in the middle of the day.

There’s so much shame still to this day around napping and taking a break. There’s a lot of shame around taking breaks and taking rests. I think I got caught up in that. This 2020 gave a slower pace of life. It’s given me the opportunity to take a more critical and loving and honest look at some ways that I’ve been living in ways I’ve been and saying, “That shit does not work.” It’s like you’ve been pushing through and thinking it’s been working.

I had a conversation with a friend of ours about the possibility that I might have adrenal fatigue because of being anxiety, stress, pushing and keep working and keep hustling and not resting and all the things that we’ve talked about. I’m curious. I think I might want to go into Dr. Green and get some adrenal tests because the long answer is, I’m tired right now. I wonder if it’s the accumulation of 10 to 11 years of pushing and not allowing myself to rejuvenate. Maybe my body is finally like, “You can’t do that anymore.” I think the timing now in particular, where I’m feeling like my battery is low is interesting that we’re bringing this up to explore.

My question is, “Is this any different?” I’ve heard you say that a lot and I haven’t been tracking when you’ve said this, but it doesn’t feel like anything new. That’s part of what I want to explore now is that, does this ever go away? It seems like almost every single year towards the end of the year, people start getting in this mentality of, “I can’t wait for this year to get over because it was bad. It was hard.” I bet you anything if you went and looked up each year, there’s going to be somebody saying like, “2019 was the worst year. 2018 was the worst year. 2017 was the worst year.”

It’s like, “Do we have this amnesia to things being bad, and this hope that they will improve?” I think that’s part of my curiosity with burnout as well. What is it like to not be burnt out? First, I want to pull up an article I found from Zapier, which is a cool website. They have a newsletter and this is where I found some of these burnout articles that I’m bringing up now. Zapier is designed to help you create systems that you don’t have to do as much.

It’s cool that they’re tackling burnout. It’s like a techie thing. This article is entitled 10 Signs That You’re Headed for Burnout, which I also think could be ten signs that you are burnt out. They defined burnout as an actual psychological disorder caused by chronic stress. It was a term coined in the 1970s and the symptoms are an overwhelming sense of exhaustion, feelings of cynicism and detachment, and a sense of professional ineffectiveness and a lack of accomplishment, which sounds spot on to what you’ve been describing, Jason.

It does. It’s scary.

The ten signs of burnout are fatigue, insomnia, addiction, loneliness, feelings of inadequacy, anger, cynicism, numbness, illness and short attention span. I’ll describe each of them in more depth as they do in this article. If you go to the podcast section of our website, every single episode that we have has a transcript that you can read, which is helpful as a sidebar. I was referencing another one of our episodes to somebody and I pulled up the transcript. It was super helpful for me to find this particular element that I was referencing. I like being able to access the transcripts on

Ten signs of burnout, number one with fatigue, you feel physically or emotionally exhausted. You stop exercising and start sleeping more or fill your mind with distractions to avoid your own thoughts. That I feel like is incredibly common. I see a lot of people on social media talking about these things, but this doesn’t seem like anything new. In general, people tend to be exhausted. I wonder why that is. One of my big questions is A, does burnout ever end? B, how does this happen to us? We can go through these part by part. Let’s dissect fatigue for a moment. I have been at my parents in Massachusetts. I’ve been sleeping much. I slept probably for ten hours. I had this moment where I’m like, “This is great. This is what my body wants.” I didn’t set an alarm. I slept until I woke up. That’s nice to be able to do. Maybe I’m slowly chipping away at the sleep debt that I have.

I had this other realization that since I’ve been here for a few weeks and most of those days, I have not set an alarm. Let’s say I’ve probably had a minimum of 10 to 15 days of not setting an alarm and waking up whenever my body wants to, why do I still need so much sleep? When is that exhaustion going to go away? What am I going to feel like I don’t want to distract myself and avoid my thoughts? I turn that same question to you, Jason.

You seem to me to frequently be talking about exhaustion and be talking about not getting enough sleep, which leads to the number two. The second sign of burnout with insomnia is you talk a lot about having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep. It sounds like you probably have some bad dreams. Do you think that your fatigue and insomnia are ever going to resolve themselves and what makes you think so? What steps have you taken? Are any of those things working or is it like constantly an issue for you?

It feels like it’s a moving target because I’ve tried different combinations of things like taking melatonin, tart cherry juice, CBD, and magnesium, and making this cocktail before bed. It does seem to help for sure. Also, taking different strains of cannabis before bed and having that be a sleep aid. It’s almost like the puzzle pieces of it change wherein I will take a version of that sleep cocktail or different sleep remedies and they seem like they work for a while and then the effectiveness starts to taper off and then I’ve got to try something new. That’s what I mean when I say it feels like a moving target. I’m always needing to find different pieces of the puzzle to see what works.

So much has shifted in 2020 in ways that we didn't anticipate, but it shifted our perspectives on life as a whole. Click To Tweet

I’m not much frustrated with that. It’s a curiosity mixed with frustration in the sense of like I remember being able to sleep without having to take six different things before bedtime. It’s almost like, “Why do I have to do my GABA, my melatonin, my tart cherry, my CBD, my magnesium?” I’m taking this drink with 5 or 6 things in it. I’m like, “Why can’t I sleep?” This is a good question in this whole show topic. Is it that I feel this ever-present level of stress and pressure to make a certain amount of money to be able to sustain myself in Los Angeles knowing what my cost of living is here. “Am I going to be able to make it this month?”

It’s probably elements of the structure that we’ve been living in which is exacerbated by social media. Social media is not the cause of it. We talk a lot about virtue signaling, which virtue signaling is being tied to the Black Lives Matter and a social ally and things like that. There’s virtue signaling when it comes to capitalism. One of the biggest things whether it’s people who are working for an employer or you and I being entrepreneurs for over a decade, there’s been this virtue signaling of your self-worth and your level of success is tied to how hard you work.

People are always doing these humble brags about how they’re the hardest worker in the room. I think that is a byproduct of toxic capitalism of don’t rest, don’t take naps, and don’t take time off. It’s all this subconscious programming where people start to see it as a virtue of how burnout they are. I’m not saying I’m exhausted because I want to brag about it at all. It’s a matter of fact thing. To your point, Whitney, the things that keep me up are sometimes a conscious thought of like, “I need to make this much money to stay afloat and pay the rent and pay the business expenses.”

There’s more subconscious stuff of feeling like, “Whatever. I’m not successful enough. What did I do wrong? Why is this person successful and I’m not?” As much work as I do on myself, I’m still plagued by those things. For some reason, maybe it’s because I keep myself busy during the day as you said about the distraction that at night, without distraction, all those conscious and subconscious thoughts come rushing through the flood gates.

I’m having this moment of stepping back and thinking one of our big aims with Wellevatr is to help people elevate their wellbeing. I also sometimes feel like, “How do we do that? What works?” I have been working on an eBook for my website, and it’s about creating a wellbeing routine. One of my favorite parts in it thus far is there is no one size fits all approach to our wellbeing and self-care.

This is tricky. It’s not easy, even for us. We’re studying this constantly. Some of these things don’t feel like they’re working. I love that visual of that moving target. It could be easy to get frustrated and say, “Nothing’s going to ever work,” and then feel depressed about it. I hope that as the audience, that’s not how you’re feeling in this moment. Coming back to this idea that we’ve spoken a lot about in terms of the wellness world, being optimistic in some ways that are misleading whereas if you follow these steps, you’re going to improve your life.

A lot of coaches, experts or anybody in those types of fields are like, “That’s what we’ve been trained to say to people where if we can promise somebody a solution to their problem, then they will buy whatever we’re selling.” I don’t feel good about that. I want to speak more openly about it as we are during this episode that you can’t promise somebody a one size fits all because there’s no guarantee. There are too many variables. It’s going to take a while to figure these things out.

More and more what I want to offer people is that sense of we’re all in this together. We’re trying to figure this out. There’s no guarantee that we will get better, but it may make us feel better to try. It’s easy to get frustrated for you that you feel like you’ve been struggling with your sleep for many years. What keeps you going with it? I’m curious about you. If it is a moving target, why do you even bother trying still? I’m not trying to be negative especially during those days where you’re feeling frustrated that the target keeps moving.

It’s a mentality that I’ve had where I’m not going to throw my hands up and be like, “This is the way it is. It’s going to be this way for the rest of your life. Good luck. Deal with the pain.” I know that on a chemical level, a biological level, a spiritual level, I’m an evolving being. I’m changing. What worked for me a week ago, 3 months ago, 7 years ago is not necessarily going to be on an energetic, spiritual, chemical, biological level that’s going to work for me now.

It’s acknowledging that things are always in transition. Things are always changing. Things are always evolving and moving. There’s that looking at the basic fundamentals of nature and how our nature and biology and spirituality operates. That’s my philosophy around it. I think beyond that too for as much as I get down on myself and maybe beat myself up, I’m still hard on myself in some ways. I do acknowledge that I don’t necessarily quit on things.

In this context too, we’re talking about sleep issues or stress or burnout, but in the past few years, I’ve dealt with painful eczema. This year 2020, I injured my foot. I’ve been in physical therapy. Even taking those examples, I could throw my hands up and say that I’m going to have this horrifically painful skin condition that there is “no cure for” that most mainstream doctors are like, “It’s an autoimmune disorder. There’s no cure. Live with it.” Maybe injuring my foot and being like, “What’s wrong with my foot? Did I break it? Is it a fracture? Is it tendonitis? What can I do for it?”

MGU 134 | Burnt Out

Burnt Out: The ten signs of burnout: fatigue, insomnia, addiction, loneliness, feelings of inadequacy, anger, cynicism, numbness, illness, and short attention span.


I guess my long answer is that I’m a seeker. Life is a moving target so answers are going to change. What works for me at this moment is going to be different than like I said 10 minutes ago, 3 months ago, or in the future. I think I don’t want to be resigned to any mentality of, “You’re going to live this way. This is what the rest of your life is going to be like.” The word is persistent and determined to seek out answers and direction and realize that it’s going to be a fluid situation.

We always talk about on this show that life is an experiment. The more experiments you make, the better. I believe in that that we have to be curious. We have to be life experimentalists. We have to constantly try new things and open our minds and hearts to new ideas and new ways of being. My long answer is that I wasn’t content to say, “I give up. I’m done. The hell with it. I’m going to live with it.” There’s a part of my spirit that doesn’t feel like I want to live that way. I can’t accept that as a guiding principle of life.

I’m in the same boat as you. I hope that my questions don’t get misinterpreted to the audience as I’m being cynical, which leads me back to this list here because cynicism is on this list of burnouts. Perhaps that cynicism that you’re feeling is a sign that you’re burnt out. Number three on this list is addiction. This could be smoking, drinking, using drugs, or gaining weight due to overeating. I feel like addiction is a bit of a harsh word. I feel like a better word for that would be coping mechanisms, because for example during COVID, I started drinking alcohol more frequently than I usually do. I wasn’t sure why that was happening because I’ve never been that into alcohol. I started to find some joy and pleasure in it. I would sometimes step back and wonder, “Is this a coping mechanism?”

I also noticed my eating habits changing. I was being gentler on myself after doing a low-carb keto diet for a little over a year. I started eating more carbs during COVID. I was thinking to myself like, “It’s okay. We’re in a pandemic and this feels good.” I’m still doing that. The pandemic isn’t over yet. My mentality says, “It’s okay. I’m on the East coast. I’m traveling. I’m going to eat these things.” There’s always this voice in the back of my head wondering why I’m eating differently or drinking differently. I also have wondered that about coffee too. It’s like, “Am I drinking more coffee as a coping mechanism?”

It’s interesting to step back. I feel like the word ‘addiction’ is a little harsh in this context and perhaps they meant to say something different because addiction is a serious word. Do you feel like you have picked up anything, Jason, or started doing things? For example, you told me that you went and got dessert because you were feeling low emotionally. Have you been doing things like that more frequently? How did you feel after you had that dessert?

I’ve talked about this on previous episodes where I feel like sugar has been my Achilles heel over the course of my life in terms of when I’m feeling lonely, depressed, emotional, anxious, stressed, unclear. Whatever uncomfortable emotion, I tend to default to something sugary. For me, it’s not been fatty. It’s not been salty. It seems to be from a taste perspective, sugary and from a textural perspective or mouthfeel perspective, crunchy.

If I get something sugary and crunchy, that’s my wheelhouse of comfort food. I haven’t been bingeing per se. I don’t think I’ve mashed the throttle proverbially speaking on like eating sweets crazy every single day. I have noticed that I’ve been eating more ice cream. There’s a great bakery that I found through our good friend, Melissa Glazewski from Forkin’ Plants. She recommended Cake Girl, which is dangerously ten minutes from my house here in LA.

It’s all relative because it’s gluten-free, soy-free, nut-free, dairy-free and fully vegan. They use a lot of organic ingredients. It’s a “healthy baked good.” I’m not gorging on butter, dairy and processed ingredients. I do know that I can much go over the edge a little bit on sugar if I allow myself to. My word instead of addiction that I’ll use for myself with sugar has been overindulgence. That’s more accurate for me as I’ve been overindulging. When I was depressed and I’m like, “I’m going to go get some cupcakes.”

I temporarily felt better. Once I got that sugar hit, I felt my brain chemistry change, I was like, “I do feel better. Thanks, cupcake.” A few hours later, once the sugar high wears off, then it’s like, “I feel like crap again.” I understand where the word addiction comes in because there’s that slippery slope of, “We’ll have another cupcake then. Get yourself out of this depressed state. Get that sugar hit in your brain to get the dopamine back up.” I don’t know that I’ve ever had an addiction problem with sugar, but I have overindulged. During this quarantine COVID period the last several months, I’ve leaned on sugar more than usual for sure.

Is it more than usual? That’s the question to ask you, Jason, myself and the audience is how many times do we tell ourselves this is temporary and then slip into it being more of a constant? The food is interesting. It’s a challenging thing for a lot of us. Each of us has different relationships with food. There’s like a fine line between being too restrictive with it and too critical. Part of that is due to how our culture perceives food.

There’s a lot of marketing and messaging out there about dieting and what food is indulgent. Even for you saying that place is dangerously close to you. It’s not a danger. We have these terms that we use a lot to talk about food in a negative light like, “We shouldn’t be having this.” At the same time, there are some foods that might be more nourishing for us and perhaps more helpful for us in the long run. Food, drinks, drugs and all these different things that could be on that gray area of becoming an addiction, a coping mechanism, something that we’re going to make ourselves feel better is tricky because we could easily say it’s temporary then it becomes more of a long-term choice.

As much as we can say, “This is a food that I’m only going to have to make myself feel better, but I shouldn’t be eating this regularly.” It’s even hard to discuss. We put many labels on things. Each of us has had to make the determination of what we want to have and when. That’s why the word addiction feels a little harsh here. There’s nothing wrong with having a baked good or a dessert or whatever on a frequent basis. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re addicted to it or that you’re doing it because you’re burnt out. It’s the more extreme sides of things perhaps.

Inadequacy can fuel the burnout. Click To Tweet

Maybe what this article is saying is you did have an addiction to smoking and you quit smoking. During this feeling of burnout, you picked it up again. You start drinking more heavily. It’s helpful to examine these things but not be too hard on yourself if you are doing any of those things. Be clear on what addiction means to you versus what addiction means as a definition of the word. The next sign of burnout on this list is loneliness. To me, loneliness seems like a big issue. I don’t think this is necessarily about burnout. It’s interesting to see this on this list. They describe it in this article as feeling alone even when you aren’t. Feeling like no one understands what you’re going through and even if they do understand, they don’t seem to care.

I’m fascinated to read this in the context of burnout because loneliness is a broad issue. Loneliness is something that comes up for a lot of people during COVID because of the quarantine and how our dynamics have completely changed. We don’t know when it’s going to end seeing that we’ve been in this state of the world for many months and a lot longer than people thought. We thought it wasn’t going to be much longer until COVID was over in the United States.

There was this mentality that it was a temporary thing. In October 2020, we are starting to examine what the holidays are going to be like during COVID. We have no sign of an endpoint. Things like loneliness are intense for COVID. In terms of burnout, what do you think, Jason? Do you feel lonelier when you’re burnt out or do you feel like loneliness is a sign that you’re burnt out? Is it something that you are constantly struggling with even when you don’t feel burned out?

It’s a tough one to analyze because on maybe a microcosmic level, there’s this idea you mentioned like no one understands. It’s a reticence to talk about being burnt out because of the shame in our society of like, “What do you have to be tired about?” There’s almost like this thing of, “No one’s going to want to hear me complain about being burnt out and tired.” If everyone’s burnt out and tired, it’s almost like there’s sometimes this feeling of resentment from other people when you tell them like, “I’m exhausted. I’m depressed. I’m burnt out.”

It’s like, “Join the club.” It’s like, “This isn’t a safe space to share that.” The loneliness might be stemming from that. If we are radically honest with ourselves, first of all, about the fact that I am exhausted, I am feeling burnt out, I am feeling depression, anxiety, or having mental health issues that are tied around this. If I start to talk about it publicly or with my close friends and family, and it feels like there’s not a safe space to share that, or it’s not readily accepted of like, “I didn’t know you were feeling that way. Is there anything I can do to help?”

I imagine for a lot of people based on this toxic programming from a highly imbalanced capitalist culture of suck it up and keep going. No one wants to hear that you’re burnt out or anxious or depressed. It’s like we’re all in that boat. That can hold people back. The fear of not being accepted or feeling like there’s a safe space to share those emotions and admitting that’s your state of being, I think that could feel lonely. “I have to hold this in. I don’t have a mechanism or a place to put these emotions or these thoughts or these feelings, whether that’s social media or close friends and family or colleagues.” That could engender deep feelings of loneliness. That’s my initial hit on that.

Number five on this list is feelings of inadequacy. That ties into this idea of no one understand what you’re going through and thus maybe you feel inadequate because you’re alone or something like that. In this case, the article talks about feeling unqualified for your job. Someone made a mistake hiring you. You feel like a terrible spouse, parent, child or friend. That could lead to loneliness or loneliness could lead to inadequacy. It is also interesting to think about that in terms of burnout because inadequacy is another big issue.

As I go through this list, it leads me back to my original thought of is burnout just something that we’re continuously feeling because these all seem like common challenges that people have and long-term challenges. Inadequacy seems like a lot of people feel all the time. Sometimes it’s profound and sometimes it’s more subtle and in the background. You’ll notice it through words that people use to describe themselves or emotions. If you chip away at it, you see that many of us don’t feel good enough.

That’s been a common thing. We’ve addressed that in our first eBook, which you can download for free if you’d like. It’s at We have an eBook called You Are Enough. That not enoughness feeling, that inadequacy is probably part of burnout. If I felt inadequate, I don’t think I immediately would be like, “I guess that means I’m burnt out.” What do you think about that in terms of burnout, Jason? Do you feel more inadequate when you’re burned out? Looking from the other way around, do you feel burned out because you’re inadequate?

This is almost like causality versus effect. It’s cause and effect. It is a perception or a belief system of being inadequate a contributor to burnout, or is it a result of it? It’s both in a way. It could be. For me, this is something that has been a core fundamental struggle of my life of not feeling good enough, not feeling successful enough, smart enough, talented enough, or whatever it is. For me, I realized that has driven me to succeed and to push myself past the point of exhaustion of my body telling me I need to rest or my mind telling me it needs a rest and be like, “No. Keep working. You’ve got to work harder.”

A couple of the rote concepts that keep getting parroted over and over again are the idea of you need to pick an avatar or several avatars in your industry or your field to look up to that have made it and study them, be a student of the game, find out how they made it, find out how they operate, find out how they run their business, do their art, whatever it is. The danger if you already have a subconscious belief system that of not-enoughness is thinking that you have to constantly compare yourself.

MGU 134 | Burnt Out

Burnt Out: People always brag about being the hardest worker in the room. That is a byproduct of toxic capitalism of “don’t rest, don’t take naps, and don’t take time off.”


There’s a fine line between a “hero” or an avatar or someone you look up to and also want to pattern your career in life after versus constantly comparing yourself to that person. We get examples of people who have achieved greatness and think, “That must be the way to do it.” There are a million examples. The first one that comes to mind is Kobe Bryant who passed away at the beginning of 2020. He was always patterning his game, his mentality, his style of play after Michael Jordan.

He wanted to get the number of rings Michael Jordan had. He wanted to surpass him. That was his avatar. For better or for worse, Kobe had a mentality in his life of chasing Michael Jordan and exceeding him. In my own world, what I’ve seen with colleagues and friends is they have this avatar mentality of wanting to surpass or exceed this hero they have. It can lead to massive challenges with their health and their mindset and pushing themselves too hard.

That’s an individual journey of where you feel your boundaries are. My answer to your question is the inadequacy can fuel the burnout, but then if you don’t hit your mark and you bust your ass, you try and outwork everyone, you try and hit your marks and be like your heroes and you fall short, it can feel fucking defeating. It doesn’t mean you give up. We all as humans know what that feeling of defeat feels like. It’s like, “I tried for years or decades to do this thing.” You fall short and you fall short.

It’s like, “I must suck. I must be a piece of shit.” I did all the things I was “supposed to do.” I followed the roadmap. I had this avatar. I did what they did and you fall short. It is difficult to pull yourself out of that. I’m not talking about once. I’m talking about over and over again when you feel like you’re doing the “right things.” It can fuel feelings of inadequacy. If you feel like you’ve worked as hard as you can work and put in the maximum effort and done all the stuff and you still fall short, that’s a tough place. I find myself there still. It’s a hard place to pull yourself out of.

The next part of this list is anger. This one is a great sign of burnout is when inconsequential things infuriate you. You have road rage. You might find yourself in frequent arguments with coworkers, family and friends. It’s such an important thing to talk about because it can be easy to take things personally when somebody expresses anger to you. It can also feel shameful or you can feel a lot of guilt for being angry towards the world or getting angry at certain situations. I’ve taught myself to step back and examine both as best I can. Sometimes it’s a little bit delayed.

I can take it personally when somebody is angry at me. Part of my mental process as a coping mechanism is to step back and examine like, “What is causing this person to react that way?” Burnout is such a big element of this. Sometimes people don’t know how to deal with that feeling of being burnt out so they express it through anger. When you yourself feel angry, you can step back and ask yourself, “Am I burned out? Is that why I’m angry?” That resentment is something we’ve talked a lot about.

Going back to what you were saying about inadequacy, some people do feel angry and resentful when they work hard and they still don’t feel like it’s good enough. Now they’re burnt out and they’re angry that they wasted all that time doing something right. In that perception of wasting time or the perception of, “I still haven’t achieved what I wanted. That means I have to work even harder, but I’m already burned out. How do I keep going forward when I feel burnt out?” That’s a common sense of anger is, “I’m giving much and it’s not enough. I’m pissed off about it.”

You nailed one of my core struggles around anger is that is exactly it. It’s falling into the comparison trap. It comes down to expectations. If I take personal responsibility for it, it’s holding onto an expectation that if I do A, B, C, D, E, F and G and all of these things in this order and in this way, and in this style. I’ve read these books and listened to these “experts” and got this coach. I have my avatar. I’m also doing the thing about how they say that you’re the sum total of the five people you spend the most time with. I always say “the right way” and I still don’t get what I want.

There are two choices you can dwell in like, “Woe is me. I’m a victim. Fuck life. Life didn’t give me what I wanted. I’m going to curse God and the universe. Goddammit. Why didn’t I get what I like?” I know what that place is. It’s anger. It’s spite. It’s a disappointment. It’s a painful place to live in or it could be that I have an expectation I’m holding that if I do things this way and, in this order, and listen to the right people and all those things we’ve talked about, then it will result in this thing.

Expectations are painful because we think if we do things this way, we will get what we want. Life doesn’t work that way. Like these contrapreneurs, “Follow my formula, do my ten steps, give me $20,000 and I’ll show you how to do it.” My distaste for this industry is growing more and more because it’s like, “No. It might work.” The framing of telling someone, “If you do things this way, you will get this result,” it’s misleading. It’s deceptive. It’s not how life works. I say that from my own personal experience and there might be an audience who is like, “I did do that and it did work.”

That’s great. We can’t say that if you do things the right way in this order, in this timing, in this way, there’s a guaranteed result. Expectations are dangerous in life because they set you up for disappointment. More than that in my experience, if we don’t take ownership of our expectations and thinking that if we follow a formula or live life a certain way, we’ll get what we want. Bitterness, resentment, anger and hatred can set in quickly. That’s a painful, toxic place to live in.

We talk about a lot of topics, but many of these topics, at least for me, I don’t want to speak for you, I still wrestle with from time to time. It’s not maybe as ever-present as it used to be, but I still struggle with anger and resentment. I have to check myself and be like, “Is this anger and resentment coming from a victimhood mentality of thinking life owes you something, or is it coming from the fact that maybe you had expectations that you set up for your life that weren’t met?”

Expectations are painful because we think if we do things this way, we will get what we want. Life doesn't work that way. Click To Tweet

Any time that we feel angry or we experience anger from somebody else, it does help to step back and ask ourselves. If we feel comfortable, ask somebody else what the root of it is because that creates a whole different dynamic within ourselves and within our relationships when we can understand it. The next step is cynicism. This is about believing you’ll fail so you have a hard time convincing yourself to start or try anything.

You may also be overly critical of other people’s ideas. It’s easier to feel cynical when you are burnt out because as we’ve been discussing, burnout comes from trying something and not getting the results that you want or doing a lot and not being thanked or rewarded for it or not feeling accomplished, or doing much even when you do feel accomplished. Maybe you’re exhausted because it took much energy to do it.

Cynicism sets in when you feel resentful or when you’re not getting what you want so you don’t feel like anything will work. To your point, Jason, that idea of somebody telling you that if you follow their steps, you’ll get what you want. If you do follow those steps and you still don’t get what you want, it can lead you to feel like nothing’s ever going to work. That’s a huge issue that we have in our lives. Many companies and individuals use that as a marketing tactic and tell us if we just do this then we will get that. If you don’t get that, then you start to feel like something’s wrong with you, that you’re inadequate, that you’re not doing it right, and that you’re not good enough.

This whole idea that I’ve said a few times throughout this episode of, will this ever change? Will we ever feel like we’re not burnt out? There’s a side of me that I’m not usually a cynical person, but I have those moments of wondering if anything will ever change. I don’t know if that’s a sign of burnout. It’s hard to say like anything else on this list. It’s like, “If I check off enough of the things on this list, then that will indicate that I’m burnt out. If you take any of these things off the list on their own, they could be completely separate from burnout.”

We laugh at this because it’s like, we’re reading a list and here we are saying like, “Don’t follow lists of advice that people give you,” which is similar but different. With anything regarding a self-assessment of our own health or mental state, take everything with a grain of salt. This article is interesting in the sense that it’s giving us a lot of food for thought and perspectives to contemplate with. In terms of cynicism, to me, it feels almost like the opposite of enthusiasm. You think about the origin of the word ‘enthusiasm.’ It comes from entheos, which comes from fios, which is divine or godlike or holy.

It’s almost like when you feel a sense of enthusiasm around your life, the things that are happening in your life, what’s going on. It is almost like this divine spark of energy and joyfulness. Enthusiasm is an incredible emotion and energy to feel. Cynicism to me feels close to the opposite of that where you don’t feel divinely inspired. You don’t feel a sense of joyfulness or excitement or motivation. It’s like, “Why should I bother? Fuck it. Everything goes to shit anyway. I always fail. Nothing goes the way I want.”

It feels like the opposite of enthusiasm. I think about this a lot when I feel uninspired or don’t feel a spark in my life is, “What can I do? Who can I be? What situation can I put myself into engendering feelings of enthusiasm?” That’s what came up for me is it feels like cynicism is the opposite of that where cynicism is somewhere in the vicinity. It’s almost like on the train to hopelessness. You’re not quite there yet, but it could easily lead to that destination.

Number eight on this list is numbness. When you stop celebrating birthdays or holidays and no longer find joy and professional accomplishments. I could see that being connected to burnout. Some of these things lead to one another. When you feel cynical, maybe you become numb. When you feel angry and you don’t feel like you can do anything about it, you become numb. If you feel inadequate, you might want to become numb. If you’re addicted to something, that’s a form of numbing yourself.

If you can’t sleep, you might want to numb yourself in order to try to get some rest, or maybe you’re exhausted that you go numb. This to me feels like a burnout thing unless it’s like a major psychological challenge that you’re having. I reflect on the times where I go numb as a coping mechanism. Since we’ve brought up that phrase a few times in this discussion, I wonder if burnout in itself is a coping mechanism like your body and your mind. It’s a physical thing, mental thing, emotional thing and you get to this point where you need to stop.

It’s almost like your body is forcing yourself to stop by feeling all of these intense emotions and going numb might be the last resort. It’s like, “I can’t get out of bed. I can’t go socialize. I don’t want to experience anything because I’m not finding the joy in it so it’s easier to stay at home and zone out. It’s easier to drink or do drugs.” My heart goes out to anybody who feels numb. Is that something that you experienced, Jason?

I don’t know about numbness per se. It’s a disinterest in doing things in life, I don’t know if I would classify that as numbness. When I think of numb, I think of almost like desensitization or someone being emotionally detached from life. I don’t know that I’ve gone there necessarily. I have felt that there have been moments where I’ve been completely disinterested in things that would previously bring me joy. Maybe to your point, burnout is a coping mechanism in the sense that one of the things that I’m passionate about researching is nutritional psychology.

MGU 134 | Burnt Out

You Are Enough

There are nutrients and biological systems that are directly affected in our body when we are under unabated depression, stress, anxiety, fight or flight. In the sense that when say we have elevated levels of adrenaline or cortisol, this stress hormone that gets activated by constant stress and this fight or flight neurological response, our bodies when that happens consistently. For a lot of people in the modern world, in big cities who are constantly under a stressful existence, we’re in fight or flight a lot more than we realize.

When we do have that spike in adrenaline and cortisol and feel constantly stressed, we have a demineralization effect. Our body to try and compensate as an example for a more acidic bloodstream when we’re stressed out, it’s pulling things like calcium and magnesium from our bones to try and alkalize our blood when we’re stressed out. There is an effect of our B vitamins, D vitamins. It’s key minerals in our body being depleted because our body’s leveraging those minerals and vitamins to account for the higher elevated level of stress hormones. Part of me wonders because of the research that’s out there regarding nutritional psychology of how depleted are we in certain nutrients when we have chronic stress, chronic anxiety, chronic depression.

It could be to your point that burnout is our body’s intuitive way of saying, “You need to sit the fuck down and rest because if you keep going like this, you’re going to put us into a compromised state.” Our bodies have such innate wisdom that when you said that, I was like, “That makes a lot of sense that our bodies are like, you are going to lay down and we’re going to make you rest so that you don’t burn us out to the point of no return.” When you said that, from a nutritional perspective, a biological perspective, that makes much sense to me.

A lot of this is about listening to yourself and this list is helpful to assess where you’re at. Ask yourself, “Is this related to burnout or is it something else?” Especially when it comes to the ninth sign on this list, which is an illness. It could be having headaches, feeling like you’re having heart or breathing problems likely from anxiety, or feeling nauseous in anticipation of something like going to work. Illness might not be the best word here because when I think of illness, I think of like a big health issue, not to say that I’m not trying to minimize any of these things.

Headaches can be extreme and also having heart or breathing problems if they’re from anxiety and something that maybe you can work on through dealing with your emotions. That last one about feeling nauseous and anticipation of something is a good thing to take note of when you’re feeling because that can certainly be connected to burnout. I’ve felt that way that like physical discomfort that you get when you don’t want to do something.

You have to ask yourself, “Do I need to be doing this thing? Is it worth it? Why is my body telling me this?” What do you think, Jason? You’ve talked about was it like a heart or breathing problem that you had? Where do you stand on that? Did you find that was from anxiety or burnout or was it a physical health issue? You’ve talked a lot about your challenges with your leg and your foot. Do you feel like any of that could have been related to burnout?

I never got a definitive answer. I didn’t go see a cardiologist. I had been talking to our friend and colleague, Dr. Joel Kahn, who was a previous guest here on the show. He was a great guest with us right at the beginning of COVID and had a lot of great ideas and perspectives on immunity and health. I talked to him about the cardiology stuff. I may go see him when I go home to Detroit. I don’t have any definitive answers. I could have my suspicions around stress and anxiety with my heart, but I have not had any scans done.

My heart has been feeling good. The foot thing is hard to say. If we talk about it from a simple perspective, I rolled my ankle while playing basketball and continued to play basketball like a dumb ass like, “It doesn’t hurt that bad. I’ll keep playing.” I did it to myself in a way. On a more spiritual esoteric perspective, do I think it’s a message about moving forward in my life and that there are ways that I’m not moving forward in my life?

There was a message with injuring my foot of like, “You’re not moving forward with certain things. We’re going to sit you down so you can reflect on how you’re not moving forward.” That metaphorically, the lesson in my foot wasn’t much about stress as much as it was, “Don’t let your ego get in the way. If you injure your foot, don’t keep playing basketball.” A foot injury for me is about forward movement as a metaphor in life.

What’s also interesting to me as I wasn’t on the episode with Dr. Kahn, I was experiencing burnout. I was stressed about something that day and under deadline. I remember feeling like I couldn’t handle it and asked you to do that episode by yourself.

You were having a hard day. I don’t remember what project it was, but you’re like, “I can’t do it. I don’t have the energetic or emotional bandwidth to do it.” I was like, “We’ll do it solo.” If you are interested in the lore audience of this show, there are only two episodes that we’ve done solo with guests, mine with Dr. Joel Kahn and then Whitney did a wonderful episode with Mark Victor Hansen where I was not present for that.

Expectations are dangerous in life because they set you up for disappointment. Click To Tweet

Technically, three because Jake Havron I did the same day as Mark Victor Hansen. I did one on my own about the fancy food show without you, but that wasn’t with a guest. I don’t know if we’ve done another alone. We’ve done 130 together and 4 without each other. We’re doing good. The tenth sign of burnout according to this list is short attention span. You struggle to get started on tasks, miss deadlines or procrastinate uncharacteristically. That to me is also a good sign of burnout.

It’s like, you’re not being yourself because you’re not able to devote as much time to it. That’s something that I’ve tuned in to. I noticed that I tend to have a pattern of getting off track with things or “slacking” when I need more rest but I basically will push myself as much as possible to get things done. It’s like putting in a minimal amount of effort because I don’t want to entirely take a break. That in itself is keeping you in a state of burnout.

That leads me to reflect back on this list and think like, “How much of this is us trying to put effort into productivity when we should be taught stopping altogether? Are we feeling tired simply because we need more rest and we’re not allowing ourselves to rest as much as we need? Are we having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep because we haven’t gotten enough rest and our body is burned out that it can’t even sleep? Are we drinking or doing drugs or things like that because we’re out of whack with the nutrients that our body needs, that we’re swinging the opposite direction? Are we lonely because we’re isolating ourselves? Are we feeling inadequate because we’re putting much pressure on ourselves and listening to society’s pressure? Are we feeling angry because we’re not getting what we want because we’re constantly feeling inadequate?” If you go through this whole list, it’s almost like all of these things are signs. They’re things that maybe we can start to shift. If you’re struggling to get started on a task, maybe you shouldn’t be doing that task. If you’re missing deadlines, maybe you need to take a break and not have any deadlines. If you’re procrastinating, maybe your body or your mind is telling you like, “You don’t want to do these things right now.”

That’s okay. I think one of the bigger messages here, and perhaps one of the reasons that burnout is prevalent and common especially this year in 2020, maybe it feels challenging because we are listening to the wrong messages about going and pushing no matter what. We’ve talked about it a few episodes, how both Jason and I have felt like we wanted to distance ourselves from anybody who’s participating in hustle culture, people like Brendon Burchard, who we’ve admired and studied for many years.

We still enjoy him as a person but some of his messaging around taking advantage of COVID for example, and using it as an opportunity to be more productive, I resent that. I wish that I hadn’t heard that messaging at the beginning of COVID because I don’t think that’s what my body needed. Maybe some people needed to hear that. Maybe that works for some. It’s not to say that that messaging isn’t good for anybody.

It’s that I was burned out at that time. I knew I was burned out at the beginning of the year 2020, as I said then when COVID had hit, it was like a sigh of relief for me. I think a number of people express this, it’s like, “I have permission to sleep. I have permission to take care of my body. I have permission to stay home and not go to a ton of events.” It’s tough sometimes because there’s so much conflicting information.

We are taught to be productive, efficient, to hustle, and to never stop that stopping feels like it’s a bad thing. If you’re having all these signs that we’ve been discussing during this episode, and you’re starting to feel like you’re burned out, I want to be the first to give you permission to listen to yourself. I guess the tricky thing is that it might take a lot longer to recover from burnout than you think.

I would say this to you too, Jason. I know that you’ve been trying a lot of things to heal from some of these signs, but I’m beginning to wonder like you might need months or maybe a year or more of recovery time from this. Burnout is not something that you can solve over a weekend. Our society has trained us to believe that you need Saturday and Sunday to recover from the five-day workweek. For those of us who work for ourselves, have our own businesses, consider ourselves entrepreneurs, we never stopped working.

It’s rare that an entrepreneur takes a vacation. My sister is a great example of this. She’s constantly working. She gets one day off for herself and she runs her own business and she is chronically burnt out. She believes that she has to keep going in order to keep her business afloat. When I think about her, I can reflect on myself and how much I think the same thing like, “I’ll work a little bit on a Sunday.” “Have I given myself a full day off or a full week off?” Probably not. I don’t know if you have either. What do you think?

Even if I’m examining some of the “vacations” I’ve taken, there’s been some element of shooting a YouTube video, posting on Instagram, putting out a tweet. It seems innocuous like, “I’m only going spend like a half-hour or an hour on my post.” Even vacations have been spent posting, promoting, shooting or editing. It’s interesting that you bring this up because I don’t know that I have detached myself fully from this in the last decade-plus.

Doesn’t it make sense that you’re burnt out? Maybe I’m answering my big question from the beginning of this episode, which is like, “Do we ever not feel burnt out?” I suppose that’s a personal individual thing. Maybe I’m asking that because I feel burned out all the time. Maybe even a low-grade feeling of burnt out. That’s normal, but I don’t know if that is normal to feel that way. Perhaps as a society, as a culture, that’s normal for us to be burnt out. I see a lot of parents who seemed exhausted all the time and they’re like, “That’s part of being a parent. I’m always exhausted. I’m never taking care of myself.” I don’t know if that’s true.

MGU 134 | Burnt Out

Burnt Out: Burnout is our body’s way of saying, “You need to sit down and rest because if you keep going like this, you’re going to put us into a compromised state.”


I don’t know if parenting is defined by that. That’s an American or a Western way of living, but we don’t have to do that. That isn’t how life is designed. We’re all creating it. We’re listening to one another. We’re studying each other and modeling ourselves after each other’s patterns. We’re looking at these people like Brendon Burchard, who bless his heart means well, same with Gary Vaynerchuk. If you listen enough of those people that are constantly telling you to hustle, it’s hard to listen to somebody who tells you it’s okay to take a break. Most of us won’t stop until we are injured to the point where we have to stop.

That insomnia we’ve been talking about is probably the result of our bodies being depleted. We’re going to feel lonely, anxious, angry, inadequate, numb or cynical, or we’re going to get these illnesses. It’s like, “How else are we going to listen to ourselves if we’re constantly denying ourselves from the break that our bodies and minds need?” For me, through talking this out now, I’ve seen this much like hearing you describe that constant need to be doing something during a vacation.

I felt this resentment during this trip that I’m on of the people asking me frequently like, “When am I going to do something?” I’m like, “I’m traveling.” Yet to other people, they don’t care that I’m traveling. They think that I should still be working all the time. They don’t care that I’m with my family, which is a rare thing for me given that my family lives across the country. It doesn’t matter that this is a special time for me.

People still expect me to work or are self-imposed. That’s the next question is maybe people don’t care if I work or not. Maybe they don’t care if I take a break, but in my head, I believe that they care. I’m the one pushing myself this far all the time. It’s like if you work a job and have a boss, a lot of people don’t feel like they’re allowed to take sick days even though that’s part of your job. Many jobs offer vacation days, but most people never take them or take only a few of them. They’re wasting all of this time and money by not taking sick or vacation days that we’re allowed to have.

We’re given these things yet we have created this culture of productivity. In our heads, we feel like if we allow ourselves to be sick, if we allow ourselves to go on vacation and not check our email, then we’re not going to get ahead and we’re not going to get what we want. Technically, we’re doing ourselves a huge disservice because if we’re burned out, we’re not going to be as happy. We’re not going to be as vibrant.

We’re not going to get enough sleep. We’re physically doing ourselves a big disservice. Perhaps we’re over-caffeinated in order to deal with the exhaustion. We’re eating all of these foods that aren’t nutritious and so our bodies are depleted. If we step back and examine it, this is not a good way to live. I hope that I can reflect on this big conversation myself and re-examine the way that I’m doing things and try to do it differently. It’s tough to disconnect from this matrix that we’ve all been in.

That’s a wonderful summary. It is tough when you have been taught that a certain way of being, living, working, hustling, focusing, patterning, studying all these virtues that the society, industry, family, religion and teachers. There are a lot of layers to program. One of the big things is like, “Have you been red-pilled?” Everyone’s like, “You have been red-pilled.” It’s like, “Get your fucking ego out of the way for two seconds.”

We’re all programmed. Are we deprogramming? Yes. For those of us who realize how programmed we are and asking whether or not we want to be consciously or subconsciously enslaved to these outdated programs that no longer serve us, that’s an ongoing exploration. We’ve talked about this ongoing on our blog on We’ve talked about here on the show of this idea of wokeness. Am I woke? No, you’re not.

You’re on a path of awakening, but there’s not some arrival or destination of I’m woke now. I’m this ascended master avatar being who knows all, like check your ego. You’re on a path of self-exploration and self-knowledge. That’s more accurate. That’s more honest. For all of us and for you, dear reader, you probably are on that path too of awakening. As you realize that maybe there are patterns and ways of being, ways of living your life that not just no longer serve you, but that are depleting you, that are damaging you.

It’s the question of, “I’m aware of these patterns, but what do I want to do about it now?” This conversation has been beneficial because it’s like a deeper level of awareness of like, “I didn’t realize that every vacation I’ve been on for the last decade, I’ve been working. I’ve never fully unplugged myself. I’ve never fully detached from that matrix.” That’s a big level of awareness. The question now is what do we want to do about it?

How do we want to deprogram from those old belief systems? What do we want to replace them with? The big thing here is hard work, success, and accomplishment at all cost is perhaps not a healthy way to live. For some people, maybe they perceive that it is. Maybe the possibility of the payday, the accolades, the success, and the wins at the end of that journey is worth ignoring your health, is worth ignoring your body’s intuition, is worth maybe ignoring your family or friend or connections.

People have different value metrics in life. I feel like you are too of getting to the point that sacrificing our health, sacrificing our rest, sacrificing our mental wellbeing and deep lasting loving connections in life is not worth the proverbial carrot of success, wealth, notoriety, and fame at the end of that. I know that I personally don’t want to sacrifice those things anymore. I’m done. I’m over it. I love the phrase food for thought. It’s like for each one of us as individuals to contemplate our journey and whether or not how we’re living our lives is how we want to be living our lives.

MGU 134 | Burnt Out

Burnt Out: If you listen enough of those people who are constantly telling you to hustle, it’s hard to listen to somebody who tells you it’s okay to take a break.


That’s the biggest takeaway from this conversation. That’s where I’m at. For you, dear reader, it certainly is. Looking at this as there is no endpoint to the journey. We don’t see this conversation or this show or this self-exploration as having an endpoint. That’s what I meant about that I wanted to clarify my slight bit of vitriol around the ego around wokeness. It’s like, there’s no destination. It’s a constant unfolding journey. That’s our perspective, perhaps you share that perspective as well.

This is a good time to bring up our little brand plug, which is this company called Pique Tea. This is something I’ve been thinking of drinking a lot. I struggle to switch from coffee to tea, but one of my favorite teas to drink that almost instantly makes me feel better is Pique Tea’s Jasmine tea. It’s because there’s something energetic about this formulation that makes me feel good. It’s something about the packaging.

It’s the way that they crystallize these tea leaves. It’s like instantaneous. That’s the other big appeal to me especially their Jasmine tea. They have many different types of tea that they make. I should step back and describe what they are at a basic level. Pique Tea is organic powdered or crystal teas. They’re in these little packets. You put them in hot or cold water depending on which type of tea that you’re drinking. I love the organic Jasmine tea because that can go in either hot or cold.

No matter how I want to drink it or what type of water I have access to, I can instantly have this incredible organic tea. For me, the taste of Jasmine tea is soothing. Pique, in general, is about purity. They triple screen their teas for pesticides, heavy metals, and toxic mold, which some teas contain these things which is a little freaky. When I think of tea, I think of like all teas are great but not all teas are created equally.

You want to pay attention to the teas that you’re drinking. They’re also about full-spectrum health. In addition to being fine teas, they’re also often infused with superfoods. They’re designed to help your digestion, your immune system, and to give you that calm energy. If you’re looking for something to soothe you during these times of burnout or stress, this is a great option for you and it’s part of my little kit.

Whenever I’m feeling burned out, I go through this checklist first. I examine my emotions and the signs as we’ve described now. I start to look for things that I have in my home that’ll make me feel better. Sometimes that’s essential oils. I like the smell of essential oils or candles, incense, or anything that smells good. Aromatherapy is helpful. I also like to take something to drink, something, or eat something that makes me feel good and tea is one of the best things for me to feel calmer.

If I want some energy, I can have a caffeinated tea like that Jasmine tea I described. They have a turmeric formulation that’s amazing. They have all of these different Ayurvedic blends. They have organic and ceremonial grade matcha, which is incredible. I haven’t tried it yet. I’ve been wanting to. There are many Pique Tea options. It’s hard to keep up. I’ve had their English breakfast and earl grey. It’s in a latte that’s soothing, which has like such a soothing way about it. In general, when you’re feeling stressed out, having a hot cup of tea or an iced tea if you’re in the mood for it, is incredible.

It’s almost like we get a moment to ourselves as long as we’re not having that tea, like scrolling through our phones. It’s not just the aroma and the ritual of it. It’s almost like we’re giving ourselves permission to take a few moments out of the day for ourselves, which is part and parcel of this whole conversation of how do we unplug and detach from this burnout cycle and take more time for ourselves to rejuvenate.

I love tea. I’m a big fan of different varietals of Pu-erh tea and through our dear friend, Adam Yasmin, who we’ve mentioned many times who is a tea master. I’m right there with you. I love going to tea houses and trying new teas. I don’t know if I would call myself a connoisseur or an aficionado to that degree. I always get a lot of joyfulness from sitting down and making a ceremony out of having tea. For you dear audience, if you want to try any of the amazing varietals of Pique Tea, my favorite combination by the way is half and half Jasmine and hibiscus. I love putting that combination together. The flavor profile and the energetics of it are phenomenal.

If you want to get your own Pique Tea, we have a discount code for you if you go to Pique Tea’s website, you can use the code Wellevatr and you’ll save yourself 5% on any of their delicious flavorful, and energizing varietals. It’s easy to find so save yourself some cash on one of our favorite brands. I do believe we are reaching the end of this episode. This has been yet another deep dive and exploration. Hopefully for you, dear audience, giving you some things to ruminate, contemplate and disseminate as it has for us.

We are always big fans of cracking open more conversations. If this episode has resonated with you, we always love to hear from you directly. Our email address is [email protected]. We also love hearing from you through your comments or reaching us on social media. We are on all of the big platforms, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and TikTok, it’s @Wellevatr. To keep the dialogue going, feel free to reach out to us. We respond directly. We do not have a bot.

We do not have a person in some other country who is responding on our behalf. We are the ones that directly respond to you, dear audience. We thank you for your support. If you feel compelled and moved to, we love having reviews from you on Apple Podcasts. All reviews have all been wonderful. If you feel enthusiastic and joyful, leave us a review. We would appreciate that. We will be back again as we do three episodes every single week with no sign of stopping anytime soon. We’ll be back with a new batch of episodes for you soon. Thank you so much.


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